Re-Profiling a Scandinavian Grind?

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Mattman888

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Mar 5, 2008
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I have a few moras and I have NO idea how to sharpen them properly, I have wasted hours trying to get them sharp by watching youtube videos, guides etc, All I end up doing is scratching the blade horribly... What I am wondering is how easy is it to re-profile a Scandi grind to a V Grind? I want to get the new Spyderco Bushcraft model but I wanna convert it to a V Grind...
 
All I've got for sharpening is the sharpmaker. I use it on my mora the same as a V grind knife. It works just fine, I guess theres a micro bevel on top of the scandi grind now. I think I read somewhere that this is preferred for uses other than pure carving. Pretty sure you'd be fine doing the same thing with the new bushcraft (i want one of those too)
 
Hold on there Matt. Let's talk first. Step back from the ledge please and we'll work this all out.

One reason for the geometry of the Scandinavian grind is the simplicity of resharpening...not necessarily the ease of resharpening. I will elaborate. The idea is that with that wide single bevel, you can take pretty much all the guesswork out of getting the intended angle because it is easy to feel when the bevel is flat on the stone. Some people, when restoring a profile, actually lay the bevel flat and pull the knife back and forth along the edge on the stone...with a fairly course grit. You do get a ferocious burr this way. Then you go more conventional as you go to finer grits.

So while it is simple to keep the angle right, you are removing steel from an area maybe a centimeter or two wide instead of a millimeter or two...thus it can be kind of a chore if you don't have diamond plates...and thus not so easy. It will be a bear to re-do if you don't like the V after all.

Most Scandinavian purists don't eschew a very tiny micro-bevel...like half a dozen passes on a very fine ceramic or a lot of passes on a strop...but they avoid a bone-fide secondary bevel.

Another good reason to stick with the Scandinavian profile is the years of sharpenability you'll have. If your blade lacks a fuller, you should basically be able to resharpen the thing forever at the same geometry entil the thing is just a sliver.

So please do re-consider, if only briefly, your plans to put the secondary bevel on there. You should also consider if the primary bevel is actually conducive to having a secondary. A bone-fide sabre grid will be a little more accute so that the secondary is easier to do. The scandi is the sort of the average of the two and you may end up with a very wide secondary anyway.

I am pretty much equally fond of V's, Scandi's, and convexes so I hope I bring no predjudice to this topic.
 
The beveled part of the blade is going to be scratched horribly with coarser grits. As you refine and move from coarse, to medium, to fine, etc, the scratches are going to be removed and the edge will get sharper.

You also need to gradually decrease the pressure on the stone until you're just barely applying any pressure on the finest stone, in order to get an incredibly sharp edge.

Myself, I put a micro bevel on the blade. The Mora company itself says, unless you are using the blade exclusively for woodworking, to put a 20 degree micro bevel on the blade to make it better suited for general purpose use.

Sharpen the blade using the bevel as an angle guide. Then, after you can feel the blade's sharpness, use crock sticks, a Sharpmaker, the bench stone, or a strop (or whatever else) to put the tiniest of microbevel's on the blade.

If you're using a sharpener that has preset angles, just use it conventionally, a few very light passes will give you a razoe sharp, durable edge. If you're using the bench stone or a strop, elevate the blade a bit, and again, a few very light passes will be fine.

Unless (or until) you damage the edge or run it extremely dull, all you'll need to do to touch it up is a few light passes on the sharpener.

Eventually, you'll need to rehone the actual blade bevel to keep the edge thin. So you rehone and then set the secondary bevel again.

It's actually MUCH simpler than it looks like in print.
 
I agree with Hoosier and Cramsey - sharpen the blade with the bevel flat on your stone. Lighten up on any pressure as your edge becomes crisp.

If you do change the angle of the scandi grind, you are not "re-profiling". The profile is the shape of the blade as viewed from the side. What you are doing is changing the geometry of the primary grind or the edge, or both.

I use a 1200 grit waterstone with the scandi bevel flat on the stone. About 10 passes on one side then I flip and do ten on the other. Then I might do five before flipping, then maybe three. Eventually, I am flipping the blade for every stroke, and the pressure is becoming lighter and lighter until the edge is crisp. Then I move to the Sharpmaker's white stones in the 30deg setting. Leaning the blade out to horizontal, I'll take about 5 whisper light passes, maybe a couple of more if necessary, before going to the leather strop and chromium oxide.

Those Mora blades are a dream to sharpen, and a nightmare full of scary sharp when you're finished. Keep working at it Matt...it'll come to you.
 
I've been using & sharpening Scandis for over a decade with sandpaper and a flat surface, use a sheet of glass if you have it. Lay, tape or glue down various grits of sandpaper - I use 400, 600, 1000, 1500 grits. You can go as low as 320 if you have a lot of metal to remove I think 220 grit is too much. If you keep your knives in relatively good shape, you won't need to do a complete honing rather than just touching-up the blade from time to time. I typically just use 400 & 600 to keep my knives sharp enough to pop hair off my arms.

I just lay the blade flat on the bevel and draw the blade slowly in the direction of the blade spine. I go 5 times on one side, switch & do 5 more, then switch & do 4, switch and do 3, etc. Work your way to the highest grit and you will get a sharp & polished flat-beveled knife.
 
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Thanks for the replies!

I usually take very good care of my knives but since the mora's are more inexpensive I usually give them out as loner knives, when i got my clipper and my scout back, my god... The tips were chipped right off, major damage to the blade... So I tried sharpening the burs and chips out of the blade using the sharp maker with the darker stones, It ended up ruining the blade, It never got sharp for some reason, it was like the more i sharpened it, the duller it got lol, If I had a picture of my clipper I am sure it would horrify you (Basicaly a crazy recurve blade now... :o)

So from what I understand, Unless there is some type of major damaged to the blade, a couple of light strokes on the sharpmaker fine stones will keep it nice and sharp?

I tried to sharpen my scout by taking the course stone of the sharpmaker (using it like a benchstone) and pushing the blade untill the bevel was flat against the stone, and then rubbing it back and forth, it got it somewhat sharp, but not nearly razor sharp, and it scratched the blade very badly... I am not sure if I was doing it properly...

Sorry if I word things wrong, I don't know a whole lot about Grinds, Bevels etc.
I have no problem with the mora's being scratched but a more expensive knife like the Spyderco Bushcraft it would bother me quite a bit..
 
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Sratches on user knives are love marks!

I don't have a Sharpmaker, but from reading others posts, even the gray stones are too fine to do major work with, unless you've got LOTS of time on your hands.
 
I just create a minor secondary bevel on mine over time by sharpening at a slightly steeper angle than the original grind. The blades are still razor sharp and actually become more resistant to rolling and blunting. Another advantage is that it takes very little time.

I don't see the point of grinding the entire bevel on a Scandi. If you think about it, the only way to remove a chip and retain the original grind is to shift the entire bevel up the size of the chip. And you have to do that every time it chips. That's just too much work and too much metal lost. Although I also have to also say that I never had one chip myself. They always just roll and that's easy to correct with a ceramic rod.
 
Mattman888 said:
........I usually give them out as loner knives, when i got my clipper and my scout back, my god... The tips were chipped right off, major damage to the blade... ...
.........I tried to sharpen my scout by taking the course stone of the sharpmaker (using it like a benchstone) and pushing the blade untill the bevel was flat against the stone, and then rubbing it back and forth, it got it somewhat sharp, but not nearly razor sharp, and it scratched the blade very badly... .......
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First mistake, Matt - Loaning out your knives!!! ((:D)) If I'm inclined to "loan out" a knife, I'll just give it to the person to keep. Of course, that's just me :)

A few months back, a bunch of us Dads were working up at my duaghter's school, getting ready for the start. Anyway, I'm carrying my EnZo Trapper on my hip (a Scandi grind, coincidently), and a guy yells down from the second floor "Can you pass me up your knife?". I said "What do you need to cut?" and he says he wants to trim off some foam that foamed out from a cinder block wall. You know that stuff we get in a can and spray it into cracks, and it expands to fill the crack? Well, does anyone here (who cares about knives and edges) think I'm going to let him use my knife? Huh? No, I told him to come down and gave him an old Stanley utility chisel I keep in my tool pouch. I can grind that thing down - it's a utility tool. And even if he was going to cut something acceptable, I would've gone up to cut it for him. A guy can;t bring his own knife to a worksite? That tells me he doesn;t have a clue about the difference between a quality knife and a beater, or a sharp edge and a dull one.

The problem with stroking back and forth on one side is that you will rock the blade back and forth. Now, there are guys out there who can do it, but they've been doing it, through all the ups and downs, for some time, and it works for them. I say, for now, stroke in one direction only. Use a larger stone than a flat-lain Sharpmaker, if you have it. I like the waterstones because they cut very fast and are inexpensive. You don;t need anything high-dollar for the Mora or any Scandi-ground blade. Practice keeping the large bevel flat on the stone. Remember that, at the belly, you have to raise the blade slightly because you have a double angle there....a little geometry is all it is. After your bevel is flat and ground-to-zero, then go to the Sharpmaker white stones, and just give a few whisper light (I mean whispery, ok? try it) passes, adding just the slightest micro-bevel. Then strop.

Halberdier said:
.........
I don't see the point of grinding the entire bevel on a Scandi. ......
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I suppose alot of guys do it the way you do, Hal, but the point is, really, to maintain the Scandi bevel. Otherwise, it becomes over time a standard v-grind. And...in that case, why not just get a v-grind? That's the point of grinding the entire bevel, I believe.

Whatever works for each user, I suppose, but maintaining the flat bevel on a scandi is relatively easy. You're really not grinding away as much metal as it seems and, even if so (in the case of rolls or chips), then that's what it takes to keep a scandi-grind a scandinavian ground knife. Again, if not, then we should seek a knife with a different grind, such as a convex or a flat ground V. I mean, why buy a Scandi if we don;t want a scandi?
 
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Mattman888 said:
...and then rubbing it back and forth, ...
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I think this is your problem. Make knife strokes in only one direction at a time.

I still think you should try the sandpaper & flat surface method. The is how a lot of Scandi folks do it.
 
CWL, I read your post. I actually sharpen my wood chisels that way, with wet/dry (400-1200) on a piece of plate glass.

Now, when doing your scandi, do you stroke backwards, as in when sharpening a convex grind? Your post seems to say you do, but I'm asking to be sure. And if so, why not cut forward as in conventional sharpening?

Let me know. I'm curious and might try that on one of my Moras.
 
Yeah, you push in the direction of the spine, away from the edge.

Why? I don't know, except that's the way I learned to do it. I would guess that if you pushed towards the edge and slipped, you will cut the paper and probably dull the edge.

By using the really high grit papers, I've never had much of a wire left on the edge either, though I use a leather strop sometimes.
 
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