Re-profiling VG-10

[A_City_Boy_Redneck]

I have a problem. I have a Spyderco Dragonfly 2 in VG-10. It’s my understanding that it comes with a roughly 30° edge from the factory. Whenever it needed touching up, I used the Spyderco Sharpmaker at 40°. Now, the edge is 40°. I wanted to re-profile it to 30°, so I got some sandpaper in various grits that lead up to the grit of the medium rod of the Sharpmaker— which I understand to be around 600.

Well, I started with 80 grit sandpaper and wrapped it around the Sharpmaker rods and fastened them with twist ties on top and bottom. It works perfectly, by the way. However, after spending hours upon hours working on one side of the edge with 80 grit sandpaper, see the 40° edge and I cannot create a burr on the other side. Trust me when I say I’ve spent hours and hours. I mean it.

I’m also trying to re-profile a two-dot Buck 110 that has 440C steel. I’ve read that Buck’s 440C is known to be difficult to sharpen, so I’m not as surprised as I am about the VG-10. The 440C is so difficult that I’m about to give up. But I really love my Dragonfly and don’t want to give up on it.

Is this normal? VG-10 is supposed to be very easy to sharpen. Any tips or suggestions? I have a very cheap knife—a Schrade schf57— that has 65MN steel. 80 grit sandpaper created a burr relatively quickly.

 

[115Italian]

Try some sharpening stones. Reprofiling with inadequate supplies can be a chore.

 

[knarfeng]

I have a problem. I have a Spyderco Dragonfly 2 in VG-10. It’s my understanding that it comes with a roughly 30° edge from the factory. Whenever it needed touching up, I used the Spyderco Sharpmaker at 40°. Now, the edge is 40°. I wanted to re-profile it to 30°, so I got some sandpaper in various grits that lead up to the grit of the medium rod of the Sharpmaker— which I understand to be around 600.

Well, I started with 80 grit sandpaper and wrapped it around the Sharpmaker rods and fastened them with twist ties on top and bottom. It works perfectly, by the way. However, after spending hours upon hours working on one side of the edge with 80 grit sandpaper, see the 40° edge and I cannot create a burr on the other side. Trust me when I say I’ve spent hours and hours. I mean it.

I’m also trying to re-profile a two-dot Buck 110 that has 440C steel. I’ve read that Buck’s 440C is known to be difficult to sharpen, so I’m not as surprised as I am about the VG-10. The 440C is so difficult that I’m about to give up. But I really love my Dragonfly and don’t want to give up on it.

Is this normal? VG-10 is supposed to be very easy to sharpen. Any tips or suggestions? I have a very cheap knife—a Schrade schf57— that has 65MN steel. 80 grit sandpaper created a burr relatively quickly.

In the days when Buck was first using 440C on the 110, 440C was considered brittle. So they gave it a really thick edge and a relatively obtuse primary grind angle. That's why it's so hard to reprofile down to 15 deg per side.

"Reprofile" = change the edge angle, which is not the same as "sharpening".

Both 440C and VG10 are considered easy to sharpen. Reprofiling to a more acute angle is always an effort.

Going to let the experts who hang out in Maintenance and tinkering give you guidance. They'll give you much better detail than I can.

 

[chalby]

I have a problem. I have a Spyderco Dragonfly 2 in VG-10. It’s my understanding that it comes with a roughly 30° edge from the factory. Whenever it needed touching up, I used the Spyderco Sharpmaker at 40°. Now, the edge is 40°. I wanted to re-profile it to 30°, so I got some sandpaper in various grits that lead up to the grit of the medium rod of the Sharpmaker— which I understand to be around 600.

Well, I started with 80 grit sandpaper and wrapped it around the Sharpmaker rods and fastened them with twist ties on top and bottom. It works perfectly, by the way. However, after spending hours upon hours working on one side of the edge with 80 grit sandpaper, see the 40° edge and I cannot create a burr on the other side. Trust me when I say I’ve spent hours and hours. I mean it.

I’m also trying to re-profile a two-dot Buck 110 that has 440C steel. I’ve read that Buck’s 440C is known to be difficult to sharpen, so I’m not as surprised as I am about the VG-10. The 440C is so difficult that I’m about to give up. But I really love my Dragonfly and don’t want to give up on it.

Is this normal? VG-10 is supposed to be very easy to sharpen. Any tips or suggestions? I have a very cheap knife—a Schrade schf57— that has 65MN steel. 80 grit sandpaper created a burr relatively quickly.

It's going to be a lot of work to reprofile back to 30 deg using the sharpmaker. It's not designed for that sort of work. I believe you can get diamond rods for it which should make it slightly quicker but it's still going to be a lot of work.

You could try bench stones but even if you were a pro, you'd be guessing at the exact angle and likely won't get close (also I'm guessing if you were a confident freehand sharpener you would be using a benchstone already). The only real practical way that I can think of would be investing in a decent guided system, but that would be expensive. Or you could just keep plugging away at it with the sharpmaker. If you don't want to buy some coarse diamond rods, then I would just regularly change the sandpaper so you are using fresh grit as much as possible.

I don't think there is any easy answer.

 

[Alberta Ed]

Try a fine file first.

 

[Ilikesharpstuff]

I'm a little confused by what may be a typo...are you saying after hours and hours you can still see the 40 degree edge and you haven't reached the apex? If so, you need to continue until the 80 grit scratch pattern covers the entire bevel. You can color it with sharpie to make it easier to see exactly where you're removing steel. Changing a bevel by 5 degrees can take a long time and regardless of time spent, you will not create a burr until you are reaching the cutting edge on the side you're working on. You are currently thinning the "shoulder" and should still see improved cutting ability from having less material behind the edge. It may be less frustrating to make this an ongoing project....keep your 40 degree edge sharp enough to work with by touching it up, but spend a majority of your time on the Sharpmaker at the 30 degree setting. You'll get there eventually.

If I misunderstood that part:

What happens if you do 50ish strokes per side on the brown stones at this point? Does the sharpness improve? If you are absolutely sure that you have apexed with your 80 grit sandpaper I'd do some passes on the brown stones and see what happens. If you aren't fully apexed, the difference in scratch pattern between 80 grit sandpaper and the medium stones should be obvious enough under bright light that you can see any places that you are not hitting the apex and may need to continue with your sandpaper.

 

[BJE]

I concur with what’s already been said, bucks 440c isn’t hard to sharpen because of the steel used, but because it was thick behind the edge and given an obtuse edge, takes much longer to knock the shoulder off all that steel.
The sharpmaker is terrible for reprofiling, I would literally rather use a file than the sharp maker for that. A course bench stone is best IMO. Get that edge knocked back to a proper 30 degrees or preferably a little less, then use the sharp maker to touch it up after. If you take it down to 25-28 degrees then touch ups will be faster as you won’t be sharpening the entire bevel.
It doesn’t have to be perfect, but you do have to apex the edge. So many strokes on the sharpmaker allows the variation inherent in human limitations to hold a constant angle to be exasperated, the fewer strokes it takes you to knock that shoulder down the less variance you will impart if that makes sense.

It’s worth the effort, for us that use our knives properly, a 30 degree edge will cut better and for longer than a 40 degree edge will. 40 is for the average person that cuts things on dirt and ceramic plates, hits staples, concrete, and hacks at the material behind cut. I prefer 20 to 25 myself, but I’m careful with how and what I cut. 30 is a great compromise.

 

[A_City_Boy_Redneck]

Thank you all for your replies. I’m going to invest in something better to sharpen it with pretty soon. In the meantime, I’ll keep going at it.

 

[toker]

The Sharpmaker is a really inefficient way to reprofile. I wouldn't bother wasting your time. There are a lot of cheap variable angle devices out there that would make it a lot easier.

 

[Obsessed with Edges]

In the near-term, with the sandpaper available, you can also affix it flat to a HARD surface, like glass, tile or stone on a bench or tabletop. Then use edge-trailing passes in a stropping-like fashion to grind thick edges down ('reprofile'). That's what I did with my old 2-dot Buck 112 in 440C, using SiC (silicon carbide) sandpaper. Start with something like 220-grit or coarser. Used this way, it's much easier to exert more grinding pressure and make longer passes on the abrasive, which really speeds the process as compared to attempting the same work on the Sharpmaker's rods. SiC sandpaper will eat steels like D2, 440C and VG-10 for breakfast. But it makes a big difference if you utilize the sandpaper in a manner that allows use of greater pressure and longer, more fluid strokes against the abrasive.

 

[elevator man]

If it was me I'd get a basic sharpening stone and reprofile by hand then sharpen how you please.

I sharpen with a dmt aligner setup. Works great on my delica, I need to see how its going to work out on my dragonfly. I just don't use it much so it ain't needed sharpened yet. I changed my delica to a 40 degree angle, from 30, and I'm actually liking it. It still blows hair off my arm easily right off the stones at 40 degrees and is very durable, I did some carving of tough plastic putting lateral stress on the edge this week no knife should have to do and it didn't roll chip or anything, still shaved.

 

[TheOne45]

I’m also trying to re-profile a two-dot Buck 110 that has 440C steel. I’ve read that Buck’s 440C is known to be difficult to sharpen, so I’m not as surprised as I am about the VG-10. The 440C is so difficult that I’m about to give up.

If you need to tighten a torx screw you can use pliers in some cases but the best bet is to just buy a torx screwdriver.
So; if you want to do a work first get yourself a proper tool. You don't need to buy $500 Makita or Milwaukee power drill; for average guy $100 Ryobi will do just fine as it does in my case. If you want to make an omelette you have to break some eggs; right?
I hope you understand what I'm trying to say.

 

[Guy McVer]

Now, the edge is 40°. I wanted to re-profile it to 30°, so I got some sandpaper in various grits that lead up to the grit of the medium rod of the Sharpmaker— which I understand to be around 600.

Well, I started with 80 grit sandpaper and wrapped it around the Sharpmaker rods and fastened them with twist ties on top and bottom. It works perfectly, by the way. However, after spending hours upon hours working on one side of the edge with 80 grit sandpaper, see the 40° edge and I cannot create a burr on the other side. Trust me when I say I’ve spent hours and hours. I mean it.

Okay. Here's the problem as I envision it: the paper is not rigid. It's flexible, As you push down into it with the knife, the paper wants to push out. This is creating a curve away from the surface of the sticks that you have the paper wrapped around. You are making a convex on your knife edge. Material being removed from the knife is being pushed around it in a radius. Even as you pull back, this may be doing the same thing. You might be shredding your apex. It's difficult for me to picture in my mind.

I think maybe you are pushing too hard. You want a light touch with the sharpmaker, even without sandpaper being wrapped around the sticks, which obviously isn't a recommended use case.

By the way, I think the brown medium spyderco stones are finer than 600. I don't know exactly but I would guess them to be closer to 800. Or maybe somewhere in between 600 and 800? If I am wrong then I would be happy to be told so.