Read the Knife - PorchSourcing ( Traditionals Only )

Gevonovich

Gevonovich

Joined
Jan 17, 2011
Messages
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I thought I would start a thread based on PorchSourcing information on a knife you have questions about. We will develop a format organically :D
Notes:


First Up

Subject:

A Cattaraugus pearl

Questions and Discussion:


1.Wharncliffe - Do you agree with the pattern ?
2.Has a blade been removed and/or what are we looking at in photos 2-4 ?
3. Any catalog images known?

Photo 1
Catraraugus
3.25"
One blade
No pattern no# on knife
30724575753_586c1a872b_b.jpg


Photo 2 - well view of small end
30724573903_aae10aa481_b.jpg


Photo 3 - butt view of small end
30692790254_54a4d4f2dc_b.jpg


Photo 4 - Spine view of small end
30692786204_545f5a3c6d_b.jpg
 
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It appears that a second blade was cut off. I don't agree that the remaining blade is a wharncliffe but it is certainly feasible that the secondary was. It's a beautiful knife regardless. :thumbup:
 
That's a Wharncliffe frame. Can we see it closed, and from above with the blade open please Gev? :thumbup:

Edit - What I suspect is that it's a re-work, that spear-point doesn't fit that frame I don't think.
 
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I can reply to this while I am eating lunch then I have to get back to hanging Christmas lights.
On page 59 of the Catt Catalogue they show a 22153 that is called a Wharncliffe . Their picture does show a wharncliffe blade but no shield . The 3 in their number shows that it is Genuine Mother of Pearl .It is a 2 bladed knife . The smaller blade is fairly narrow . Narrower and longer than I would think a Pen blade would be.
Sorry to have to be so short , but we are supposed to get a bunch of snow tomorrow and I got to gitter done .
Will finish going through the catalogue later and furnish any pictures Gevo.

Harry
 
Hope you get your lights up, and that the snow doesn't fall too heavy Harry :) Very interested to hear what you think :thumbup:
 
Did not take long to get through the catalogue.



That was the closest picture that I could find. Nick location ?????

Harry
 
That's a nice Wharncliffe Harry :thumbup:
 
If that one is a Catt 22153, here's my 22159 that I bought from Charles (Chuko). I'm using his pictures (taken by Chief) because they are so nice and really show the detail. Same pattern, just the 9 means that mine is jigged bone (worm groove at that!).

Notice the serial number is on the pen blade...

bc029931722aba00d1f471502c095ee8.jpg


84a335a5d056845de63d0de3ab741ed0.jpg


b11289ef05d111214b000e63bcd74198.jpg
 
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Sorry for the delay...an old friend called out of the blue :D

Tilly, Jack , and Harry

Great thoughts gents! Thank you much for your thoughts and any more you may have:D:thumbup:

Tilly, I suspect the knife was dis-assemble, the blade cut down and the remaining piece used to fill the gap. The small brass piece adjacent to it looks like a catch bit that may have been original?

Jack
The well shot revealed a lot! The liners look worked around the spear blade bolster and some other areas. The interesting thing is the blade works great with a very slight wobble but strong half stop, open and close. It also has a very small vertical movement when pressure is placed on the edge of the blade. I agree ...its not original but a pretty darn good job.

Harry
Thank you so much for the catalog shot!!! Greatly appreciated! That seems to all but confirm the mystery. The main was replaced with a spear.The secondary was removed and fabricated/ cut off piece installed to fill the gap. And something used to alleviate the wobble damaged the pearl. My guess is the spring pin was removed and the covers were left intact? ( out of my league )

Well, it was a good $25 dollar lesson and maybe this thread will live on. The knife sure will...I like it anyway. :D

Comments and debate?
 
Very nice indeed Jake, and John takes a great photo :thumbup:
 
Gevonovich said:
Jack
The well shot revealed a lot! The liners look worked around the spear blade bolster and some other areas. The interesting thing is the blade works great with a very slight wobble but strong half stop, open and close. It also has a very small vertical movement when pressure is placed on the edge of the blade. I agree ...its not original but a pretty darn good job.
Click to expand...

Still a nice knife my friend :) :thumbup:
 
Jsega51 said:
If that one is a Catt 22153, here's my 22159 that I bought from Charles (Chuko). I'm using his pictures (taken by Chief) because they are so nice and really show the detail. Same pattern, just the 9 means that mine is jigged bone (worm groove at that!).
Click to expand...

Thank you very much, Jake! I wonder about the catch bit, but I'm almost certain now its on that knife. This was PorchSourching at its best from all...so :cool::thumbup:

Lesson:
Read the knife and don't click with blind emotion :eek:
 
Nice idea for a discussion and a lot of nice replies.

The first thing to figure out is whether the knife has been taken apart. And the work on the secondary blade could not have been done without removing it. After I know that a knife has been apart, I usually would stop and just categorize it as a parts knife.

As Jake indicated, the pattern number would be on the secondary blade if it was made by Cattaraugus.

The blade doesn't look welded or cold stamped. And it looks right for a Catt blade. Difficult to say for sure if the handle is Catt. I suspect it might be. It would be helpful to see a photo of the well with the blade(s) closed and a couple photos of the springs with the blade open. The latter both zoomed out to show the whole knife and zoomed in to show detail at the junction of the spring and tang.

Without knowing what has been replaced, the name has no meaning. We could call it "Steve". ;) A "Wharncliffe Jack" (named for the handle, not the blade) can be ruled out since the catch bit indicates that the secondary was opposite the main blade. If the main blade is original, then it would have originally been a "dog-leg serpentine". If the main blade was originally a Wharncliffe, then it would be a "Wharncliffe knife".

Last night I didn't see a catalog example of "dog-leg serpentine" but that doesn't mean there wasn't one. It just means that my catalogs don't have one.
 
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Jack Black said:
Still a nice knife my friend :) :thumbup:
Click to expand...

Thank you, my friend! I do like my old Gooselegserpwharnagus:D

supratentorial said:
Nice idea for a discussion and a lot of nice replies.

The first thing to figure out is whether the knife has been taken apart. And the work on the secondary blade could not have been done without removing it. After I know that a knife has been apart, I usually would stop and just categorize it as a parts knife.

As Jake indicated, the pattern number would be on the secondary blade if it was made by Cattaraugus.

The blade doesn't look welded or cold stamped. And it looks right for a Catt blade. Difficult to say for sure if the handle is Catt. I suspect it might be. It would be helpful to see a photo of the well with the blade(s) closed and a couple photos of the springs with the blade open. The latter both zoomed out to show the whole knife and zoomed in to show detail at the junction of the spring and tang.

Without knowing what has been replaced, the name has no meaning. We could call it "Steve". ;) A "Wharncliffe Jack" (named for the handle, not the blade) can be ruled out since the catch bit indicates that the secondary was opposite the main blade. If the main blade is original, then it would have originally been a "dog-leg serpentine". If the main blade was originally a Wharncliffe, then it would be a "Wharncliffe knife".

Last night I didn't see a catalog example of "dog-leg serpentine" but that doesn't mean there wasn't one. It just means that my catalogs don't have one.
Click to expand...

Great points and just the kind of thoughts I hope this thread will elicit as we look at others specimens :thumbup:

I will work on the photos you suggest.

Just to note: the spine of the blade tang is much higher than the spring spine when blade is open. Again, it has that tad of vertical play. Interestingly, when closed the main blades ( which the spine view when open seems to indicate is not original ) tip points directly at the catch bit.
 
Jsega51 said:
If that one is a Catt 22153, here's my 22159 that I bought from Charles (Chuko). I'm using his pictures (taken by Chief) because they are so nice and really show the detail. Same pattern, just the 9 means that mine is jigged bone (worm groove at that!).

Notice the serial number is on the pen blade...

bc029931722aba00d1f471502c095ee8.jpg
Click to expand...

That could be your 2016 knife Jake !!!!!! That is in way better condition than I have ever been able to find . Do you think somebody re-dyed the bone on that ???
If so , they did a pretty good job of it. I always get blown away with that Catt jigging . Thanks for showing it my friend. I enjoyed the heck out of it.

Harry
 
I already picked my 2016 knife Harry!

As for this knife, nothing has been done to it. Outside of these pictures, it shows its age more. The bone has a nice transparency still that is hard to show in the pics but you can see all the natural speckles and grain in it.

I can get some more pics of it posted, probably after the weekend as I'll be going away. I'll also take pics with the blades open and closed looking down on the well.
 
Jsega51 said:
I already picked my 2016 knife Harry!

As for this knife, nothing has been done to it. Outside of these pictures, it shows its age more. The bone has a nice transparency still that is hard to show in the pics but you can see all the natural speckles and grain in it.

I can get some more pics of it posted, probably after the weekend as I'll be going away. I'll also take pics with the blades open and closed looking down on the well.
Click to expand...

That will be great Jake .. Have a nice trip.

Harry
 
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