Read the stickies, still have some specific questions

Matt Browning

Matt Browning

Joined
Oct 7, 2010
Messages
41
Hi everyone,

First post on the forums, but I've been spending a lot of time on them recently. Mostly been reading the BladeSmith section, and I appreciate all of the information and discussion happening here.

I'm interested in making knives, and have read all the newbie stickies, and feel like I still have some specific questions. Bear with me, there's quite a few. To start, a little about myself:

I'm a visual artist based out of Seattle, WA. I mostly make sculptures, and show in an art gallery down in Pioneer Square. I recently had a show where I whittled 34 small wooden funnels on stilts, reminiscent of ball in cage whittlings, and filled the funnels with boiled tree sap I collected from trees in the region. With any luck, the very viscous sap will drip out of the funnels slowly over the lifetime of the sculptures.

Working on the show got my interested in my tools. I pretty much made the whole show with a Buck slipjoint folder, specifically the pen blade that I did some minor reshaping to.

Really the only knives I'm interested in making are slipjoint folders. That might change over time, but I doubt it. Every knife I have ever owned has been a slipjoint; I like how classic they are and how their small blades are great for whittling. So I guess my first question is: is jumping straight into attempting to make slipjoint folders too extreme? I feel like I have pretty good handskills, but haven't worked/machined metal before.

I've also read the stickies suggesting starting with a vise, files, and a drill press etc. The bare essentials. If I were to pursue making knives, I would just bite the bullet and buy a grinder straight away. A KMG or a Coote, I'm not sure. It might make sense to take the money I would save buying a Coote and put it towards a Baldor buffer and a drill press or something. I have a bandsaw.

In addition to being pretty much exclusively interested in making folders, I have a pretty clear idea of what I want these folders to look like. Single blade or two blade with a shared spring, small pen blades or wharncliffe blades. I would like the overall shape of the handle/scales to be rectangular, no sowbellies or other traditional shapes. Straight rectangles, with perhaps a rectangular dip in the scales for the nail nick. I'm also not particularly interested in bolsters at the moment, I'm more interested in full bone scales that I've dyed and jigged myself. I'm not sure if I would want to use traditional pin type construction of use the cool hex or star drive micro screws that a lot of makers use.

Also, because I would plan on not only showing but using these knives, specifically for whittling, I'd like to use a steel that strops up to a super fine edge. Holding an edge is important, but when I whittle I always have a strop and rouge with me, so being able to get the edge is almost more important than being able to keep it. I don't really care if it's stainless or not, but Sandvik 14c28 seems like it might be a good choice.

So after reading the forums, looking through the online tutorials and some books, I'm staring to compile an equipment list:

-Grinder (Coote or KMG)
-Drill press with drill press vise
-Bandsaw (which I have)
-Vise
-Buffer
-Flex shaft for jigging (which I have)
-Lots of sand paper

Considering the knives I am interested in making, are there any other tools you would recommend?

I appreciate any feedback in advance, and again, thank you for what has already been posted to these forums.

Matt
 
First let me say that I've never made a slipjoint.

Slipjoint knives have small blades, thus it means that if you want to make one there's not much steel that has to be removed.
So you can question if you realy need a $1000,-/$2000,- grinder.

I firmly believe with anything that if you want to learn something well, firt learn to do it by hand.
Then you'll know what you are talking about and you can speed things up.
The faster your machines/tools, the faster you'll screw up.

Why don't you first make two or three slipjoints and see if you actualy like making them?
Then you'll know what you are talking about and you'll be able to judge by yourself what machines you'll need.
If you buy them before you made a few knives there'se a good chance that you'll buy stuff you don't need of you'll wish you would have bought different.

A good way of getting the feeling for the mechanics is to put together a kit-knife.
See it as a learning experience.
I think that your biggest problem will be the heattreating.
You can send out the blades for HT, but getting the spring HT'd how you want it could be a problem.

To make a long story short: keep your money in your pocket and first invest your time in getting the experience and skill by making a few knives by hand.
You'll need a vice, files, sandpaper and a hacksaw.
And elbowgrease.
 
I concur that a knife kit may be a good first choice. You can customize it as much as you like. The steel is good quality and will take an edge as you wish. The handles can be made from whatever you wish, or you can order pre-shaped blanks.
Check out www.knifekits.com - their kits are top quality.

First ,lets talk tools:
For slippies only, a small 1" grinder from Craftsman, or even HF, will work just fine.While a wonderful tool, a KMG is way more than will be needed to make folders. Get an assortment of good quality belts from Norton , Klingspor, or one of the knife suppliers. Parts for folders can be purchased from Knifekits or any of the knife supply companies. You said you have a band saw,and you probably already know that a metal cutting band saw is not the same as a wood cutting band saw. For slippies, a good hack saw will suffice.
A vise is a requirement. Make a set of brass or copper jaw liners for it and you will be a happier fellow.
A good selection or top grade wet-or-dry papers from 100 grit to 2000+ is needed.3M, or any of the good abrasive companies are fine. The auto supply shop is a good source for this.
The drill press is where you want to spend your money if you make folders. It has to be robust and can not have any issues with run out and slop. If you are going to buy one, I would suggest you skip a drill press and get a small to medium size milling machine ( about the same cost as the KMG, and far more useful). It can do many of the precision tasks needed on folders. Nail nicks, bearing/pivot shoulders, precision drilling and reaming, tapping, etc. are all the realm of a milling machine. Forget the mini-mills and get a good quality medium size unit.

Steel:
When you make your own folders, consider making the blade blank in CPM154 or S30V. However, as a carver, you can't go wrong with 1095. Up until the modern steels, nearly all folders were 1095.

Tips:
After the basic blade profile is shaped ( slightly over-sized), drill the pivot holes, cut the nail nick and harden the blade .Grind the bevels and do the final fitting after hardening.

Make a jig from a 1" thick plate of aluminum with holes drilled to match the liners.Make sure the holes are dead straight at 90 degrees.The holes are the size of the pins/screws/rivets that you will be using to assemble the knife. Insert long pins in this jig to "test assemble" the slippie as you refine the blade heel and springs so it will walk and talk. Such a jig allows you to make most parts a tad oversize and slowly bring them down to a perfect fit (after hardening). The jig can be used to make many knives, and several sets of holes can be drilled for different knives in one block of aluminum. Label the hole patterns so you know which knife they are for.

Hope this helps.
 
So words for thought, I use a coote and it is fine, obviouly if money were not an issue I would have KMG, no question about it.

Making slipjoints w/o a mill/drill is frustrating, trying to get the holes square on a drill takes alot of set-up so I suggest getting a small mill/drill and a small drill press , there are alot of hole that dont need the precision of the mill drill and its easyier to use quickly.

You may want to keep an eye out for a nice small surface grinder, it really helps when you are starting and solves some problems before they happen. I know alot of slipjoint makers do not have on but the makers that do have one swear by it.

Another suggestion is to go to the local antique/junk store and buy some old slipjoints similar to what you would like to make and take them apart, good place to start.

The best investment I have maded is How to Make Multi-Blade Folding Knives by Eugene Shadley, damn this book is pricy, but clearly the best.

I have not used or tested Sandvik 14c28 but looking on google it does not seem to be a great steel??? I prefer to use A2 which is a good carbon steel or better yet are the CPM steels CPM 154 CM or CPM s30V. I would make a working knife like you describe from A2, just my perferance
 
you sure can drill with a mill but you cant mill with a drill

a little grinder will be fine for small knives

you can buy PG steel and not worry so much aout a surface grinder

folders are all about flat, round , parallel and perpendicular if you get all those specs in order its much easier to get the proper "walk and talk"
 
Thanks for the input thus far guys. I'm really glad I asked the question about the grinder... didn't realize a 1 x 42 would suffice.

Hengelo, I understand/agree with your belief that things should be handmade first and foremost as a means of understanding the process. Part of the reason I am interested in purchasing some tools outright however is because I am currently the resident artist at Seattle University and I get $500 from the school to spend on art supplies and/or tools. This is a reimbursement stipend, so I have to buy something before I get the money.

That being said, it sounds like a bunch of smaller tools or a mill should be where I put my money. Do any of you have mill recommendations? This is currently for sale in my area. Price is right but I know nothing about it. Any advice would be helpful.

Thanks again,

Matt
 
Here is a link to a supplier that has mills that we are more familiar with, similar price.

http://littlemachineshop.com/3900

Intersting that the seller added some keywords for mill that are more popular "South bend logan taig sieg sherline atlas craftsman jet grizzly x2 x1 harbor freight cnc compact 5 8 unimat lathe mill milling

you may want to compare specification before jumping.

Get a list of what accesories are available from the seller, these will typically run alot of $$ so this may be what makes the deal.
 
Hi guys,

I know a lot of people post questions about what equipment to buy and are never heard from again, so I wanted to follow up and thank you all again for your input.

I ended up going the relatively inexpensive route in outfitting my shop to start. I got a Grizzly 1 x 42" grinder that seems to be working well, a very old and bombproof craftsman drill press, an old Foredom my roommate had, and a Milwaukee portaband that I added a table to. I'm getting a surface plate tomorrow, which I think will be really handy.

And I've made a knife! I drew up my own design in Google Sketchup, which I really like. The blade and spring are 3/32 precision ground O-1, the liners are 1/16 nickel silver, 3/32 nickel silver pins, black paper Micarta scales. I cut the nail nick by hand with the Foredom.

I like the design pretty well, though it's much simpler than most of what's posted on this site. I'm making small slipjoints for whittling, and after using the 3/32 O-1, I realized 1/16 might be better suited for me. Should I sill use 3/32 pins, or can I use 1/16?

Below are the pics. Any advice/comments are greatly appreciated.

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I concur! Great lookin lil guy... albeit a bit cubist for my tastes... LOL! (artist joke... :thumbdn::rolleyes::foot::p booooo bad joke...) yea I just heckled my own joke! seriously though, Nice lookin lil slippy!

Jason
 
Thanks guys. I'm definitely into designing more geometric knives right now. I think that appeals to some people, but for most it's a little jarring looking. I plan on starting on one today that even has a square tip... I imagine it being a nice picnic knife or something.

Any additional comments are appreciated. I can't begin to describe how much the content on both this forum and the Knife Network have been in speeding up the learning curve for me. So thanks again to all of you.
 
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