Real world merit of overbuilt blades

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DangerZone98

Joined
Dec 7, 2019
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Lemme start this off saying that I love overbuilt knives. I can appreciate the charm and the heft of these blades, and they do somehow instill more confidence in the hand.

In real world use however, how often does the added durability come in handy? To concretize this discussion, let me use the examples of the Morakniv Companion and Becker BK2. In most cases, the BK2 will probably eat more punishment and come out of the ordeal just fine. For reasonable camping tasks however short of prying and batoning, the Mora does just fine.

For me, the added durability is definitely welcome, especially if you’re assigning your knife to potentially save your life or others (get-home-bag, duty knife, etc.). For most uses however, I find that something lightweight like my Mora or CS Kobun do knifework just fine.
 
I think a potential merit is not just an increased envelope for intentional abuse, but also unintended abuse. Not that Moras aren't durable, but if I'd hold my breath if I dropped it on concrete, where the Becker or a comparable ESEE would be as likely to hurt the concrete as they would be to suffer damage. Whether that increase in durability is actually relevant to a particular person's use is going to vary, but the piece of mind in knowing that you are probably never going to do something that will irreparably damage the knife can be a plus.
 
Mental and emotional comfort and the feeling of well being derived from such are real. If you go into the fray believing you can win, the odds are better that you may.

(Though I agree that my love of the overbuilt is largely a product of the mind, I love them nonetheless. And still love my skinny slicers as well. It's not either or...it's both. :cool:)

Lately, I seem to like the hefty gals. :D
 
I have a Bravo 1, which I stopped carrying a long time ago when I started doing all the ultralight stuff. I don't anticipate a survival scenario (famous last words, I know :-). I use a Mini Duku or a Golok to chop at home or in camp with minimal batoning and feathersticking. I still carry a full tang fixed blade, but it is as small and light as it can be.
I collect pencil and finger sized twigs and basically debris for a small wood burning stove and haul larger pieces of wood to be burned from end to end in a larger fire (very rarely).
 
I personally am not a fan of "overbuilt" knives, especially folders. Fixed blades, I can understand something more stout for camping, backpacking, etc. Folders, I don't get it. I own a Becker BK5, and if I were still going camping, canoeing, etc, I would definitely find its stoutness a benefit. However, in my experience, with camping, I always had more than one knife/bladed object with me, as well as tools/multi-tool.

I've yet to ever break a blade, but then again I rarely have used a knife for anything but cutting.

However, I did for a time fall into the whole overbuilt trend at first. I fairly quickly found I didn't like carrying a heavy folder. Several years later, I've found that I like a light folder, especially now that I've started carrying a gun.

Now that my area is no longer the great frozen tundra, I will start going on short hikes again, and maybe camping if this POS body will co-operate.

OK enough rambling. The merit of an overbuilt blade? I guess that (fixed blade) being a jack of all trades in a "survival" situation (whatever that might be) is better than a master of one. If you are stranded in the middle of nowhere and need to chop wood to make a fire, my BK5 would be more useful than a Mora or other thin bladed knife. It might be more difficult to process game, but I'd rather that than have it break trying to get wood to make a fire.

Personally, I'm rarely without both a folder and a multi-tool. A mega fixed blade would be an addition.
 
I've been using knives since I was a boy scout some 30+ years ago and have yet to break a single one. The closest I've come was using the screwdriver on a Swiss Army Classic to unscrew a particularly stubborn panel. I've broken the tip of a knife or two, but never the whole knife.

IMO, overbuilt knives are not good cutters, and if a knife won't cut well it's not much of a knife. The 'need' for overbuilt knives is overblown. Early humans did well with sharp rocks, copper, bronze, iron, and dubious quality steel because for the most part they worked within the limitations of their tool to get the job done. So do I, and I have the advantage of better materials.
 
Blues said:
Mental and emotional comfort and the feeling of well being derived from such are real. If you go into the fray believing you can win, the odds are better that you may.

(Though I agree that my love of the overbuilt is largely a product of the mind, I love them nonetheless. And still love my skinny slicers as well. It's not either or...it's both. :cool:)

Lately, I seem to like the hefty gals. :D
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Mmhmm, I have this site and community to blame for diversifying my preferences in knives, hehehe.
 
I want a knife to just about 10% stronger than I think I’ll need.

Of course, I never have any idea exactly where that need is. So, in the trunk of the car is a folding saw and a crowbar.

But, for all day wandering around, a SAK Pioneer and a Spyderco Delica have not yet failed me.

I’ve got a couple Dozier fixed blades that would serve well out hiking and camping.
 
Like many others I at one point or another find confidence in an over-built folder. However cutting with them was more tedious than necessary and when I find myself reprofiling constantly they lose there appeal. I am taking a thick knife and making it thin so it cuts worth a damn....doesnt make sense.
 
Blues said:
Mental and emotional comfort and the feeling of well being derived from such are real. If you go into the fray believing you can win, the odds are better that you may.

(Though I agree that my love of the overbuilt is largely a product of the mind, I love them nonetheless. And still love my skinny slicers as well. It's not either or...it's both. :cool:)

Lately, I seem to like the hefty gals. :D
Click to expand...

I see as more than a passing fad. If we take the time to look around us we can see that larger heavier knives are a long standing feature of every culture. They were needed because they are efficient for shaping the world around us. Smaller knives are a relatively modern development that results from living in a disposable pre-packaged processed industrial society. When your only cutting need is to open mailed packages and grocery store foods then yes any little knife will do. We only have to step back a generation to recall when the typical neighborhood butcher relied on large knives instead of electric powered tools to process his goods. You need only step off the well maintained city sidewalk to realize that using a little mora or pocket gents folder is a painful and inefficient way to navigate through thorny vines or clear dead falls. I would readily admit that as a modern city dweller, large knives are mostly a matter of nostalgia and zombie killing fantasies. But, I can’t lose sight that those are real knives, while the smaller stuff is optimized for life in artificial environment.

n2s
 
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I suppose it depends on what a person's 'normal' is.
But over a century ago, when life was not so prefab and had less conveniences the basic traditional patterns sold very well. Stockmans, Trappers, and Peanuts have always been top sellers in traditionals. Even farm hands were fine with Sodbusters.
So the real world uses of overbuilt knives are few. But if you need it, you'll really need it.
 
I have one real world use that I need a very strong long knife for, but for all other slicing tasks being overbuilt isn't needed. It's become somewhat of a meme "Backyard Batoning" that I often see some people scoff at, but that actually makes me laugh, because I do baton in my bckyard on a very regular basis, because I need to process wood for my forge for heat treating knives. I don't like to waste expensive Mapp Gas, or burn my expensive Anthracite coals and cokes for normalizing blades. Especially when i'm doing increment cycling up to 3 times.
So I use scrap wood planks because I get it for free from the shops connected to my back alleyway on the main street, they toss out the left over wood and let me come grab it. I have found batoning the wood with a knife and hammer the fastest way to quickly get 30 thick strips of wood for my forges. Some people have said "Why don't you just use an axe or a saw" Well that is actually a much worse way to cut up so many small strips or blocks of wood, I've tried using an axe, it isn't as accurate, and using a saw would take way too long. The fastest and most accurate way to get even strips of wood cut to burn is actually using a hammer and a long sturdy knife. I will show you footage of what I do, and you will notice how efficient and fast using the baton method is.
Lots of forum members might not have a need to baton wood in their back gardens, and I don't just do it for videos, or to test knives, this is just an ordinary activity that I do, and I use a D2 full tang Bowie knife for it with a 5mm spine.
In this video I couldn't even use coals if I wanted to, because I ran out of my last bag, and was forced to use scrap wood.
There is a place for batoning, it is a viable technique, that I think most people scoff at, because they personally don't need to do it.

 
not2sharp said:
I see as more than a passing fad. If we take the time to look around us we can see that larger heavier knives are a long standing feature of every culture. They were needed because they are efficient for shaping the world around us. Smaller knives are a relatively modern development that results from living in a disposable pre-packaged processed industrial society. When your only cutting need is to open mailed packages and grocery store foods then yes any little knife will do. We only have to step back a generation to recall when the typical neighborhood butcher relied on large knives instead of electric powered tools to process his goods. You need only step off the well maintained city sidewalk to realize that using a little mora or pocket gents folder is a painful and inefficient way to navigate through thorny vines or clear dead falls. I would readily admit that as a modern city dweller, large knives are mostly a matter of nostalgia and zombie killing fantasies. But, I can’t lose sight that those are real knives, while the smaller stuff is optimized for life in artificial environment.

n2s
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I agree with the sentiment about big blades. Kukri from Nepal, parang from Malaysia (I think), bolo from the Philippines. All purpose-built for long-term heavy work.

If I may add however, smaller blades were also found in the traditional world, like the Finnish puukko for instance. Sometimes, the kukri also has an accompanying little blade, the karda.
 
DangerZone98 said:
I agree with the sentiment about big blades. Kukri from Nepal, parang from Malaysia (I think), bolo from the Philippines. All purpose-built for long-term heavy work.

If I may add however, smaller blades were also found in the traditional world, like the Finnish puukko for instance. Sometimes, the kukri also has an accompanying little blade, the karda.
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Thin slicing blades have always been around, just like heavy duty large blades, for the same reason they are still around today. The intended design and use hasn't changed really. There's always been big beefy blades for chopping and thin light blades for slicing. All over the world, European medieval eating or feasting knives were very thin and slicey, Spanish folding knives were thin in the 1700's. Japanese marking knives very thin behind the edge. English folding knives dating from Edwardian and Victorian periods were very thin, just like modern SAK's.
Big blade go chop.
Thin blade go slice.
 
I appreciate the comments that I have read.

I take classes when the city is not closed down. My books and supplies go into a rolling airline suitcase. There is also a Leatherman Wave and an overbuilt, full serrated Spyderco Police Model. However, I will be carrying a Spyderco Endura in a pants pocket and in a windbreaker if it is cool or cold. If I drive to school, there are a number of folders, overbuilt and not overbuilt in the car.

If you come in my home office, there are a couple of ovebuilt plain edge Spyderco Police Models at the computer, and some Enduras near the front door if I am going out for a walk and otherwise don't already have a knife in my pocket.

Let me address the Moras. I am older now. Last week I visited three sets of nieces/nephews with kids ranging in age from newborn to 5 years old. They will be going to the beach, picnicking, hiking, car camping. I gave three modified Moras and other knives. They do not need overbuilt fixed blades. Nonetheless I gave one to each family. The overbuilt fixed blades will probably be used only if one of the kids becomes a boy scout. The nieces/nephews will never go hunting/take a paid knife fighting class/take a 50 mile Boy Scout week long hiking trip.
 
Ourorboros said:
I suppose it depends on what a person's 'normal' is.
But over a century ago, when life was not so prefab and had less conveniences the basic traditional patterns sold very well. Stockmans, Trappers, and Peanuts have always been top sellers in traditionals. Even farm hands were fine with Sodbusters.
So the real world uses of overbuilt knives are few. But if you need it, you'll really need it.
Click to expand...

You got by with what you had. It was more of that heavy duty stuff wasn't available and/or you couldn't afford it. Sometimes, so used to getting by with what you had you didn't notice if there was better available.

My grandfather grew up on a farm in the great depression. As a youngin, he was messing with his dad's .22LR H&R revolver, and lost the cylinder pin. Today, we'd hop on the internet and have a new one in a matter of days, or a week. But instead of contacting the local store to try to find the part, my great-grandfather took a nail and shaped it into a replacement cylinder pin.

You worked with what you have. But I'd bet they'd have loved a big fixed blade in a better steel. My other grandfather (RIP 2019) often hated anything new tech when he started getting older. However, he probably would have appreciated a fillet knife in LC200N.

I think that with the knife industry growing, people started to realize that there are products out there that will work better for them than the old traditionals, etc. However, this small niche turned from "I need it for my occupation/hobbies in the outdoors" to "I need it because its cool or trendy."

I guess what I'm trying to say is, for big fixed blades, there are times and places when they are useful. Brick folders, less so. I for one will never pry with a knife, especially a folder, unless there is no other choice. If I bust a flat head screw driver prying open something, that's going to be a lot easier on the pocket and ego than if it was a $400 knife.
 
I can understand some of the overbuilt fixed blade knives. I would expect them to be treated to more abuse both intentional and unintentional. I don’t think that for folding knives it is a great idea. I mean the knife is already broken in the middle where the pivot is.

Of course I am an office worker so my daily cutting requirements are pretty light duty.
 
Easyrider said:
I can understand some of the overbuilt fixed blade knives. I would expect them to be treated to more abuse both intentional and unintentional. I don’t think that for folding knives it is a great idea. I mean the knife is already broken in the middle where the pivot is.

Of course I am an office worker so my daily cutting requirements are pretty light duty.
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Well, Andrew Demko may have something to say about the lock being the weak point. ;)

My buddy Jerry Halfrich would test his shadow pattern slipjoints and the blade would routinely snap before the pivot failed. (He generally worked with CPM 154.

(And Jerry built knives both on the slim side, and stout as you like 'em. Great knives, I have a couple handfuls.)
 
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