Really off topic heat treating question

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Jan 3, 2011
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Sorry I just didnt now were else to ask this.
I have an old surplus russian SKS rifle.
I want to do some work on the rifles action, cutting and welding and what not.
The problem is there seems to be no data for whatever steel was used in 1950s russian rifles.
I was wondering if any of you heat treating metal working gods might know how I might go about heat treating such a thing. Is it even possible ?? Is there a way to find out what the steel is or can I possibly use the data from other known steels of the time and generalize ??

Thanks for any help !!
 
A gunsmith would be the most likely person to know the answer to your questions.
 
FWIW, modifying the action of a rifle without a firearms permit/license ( FFL type 1 in the USA) is illegal in many countries. Making one automatic can get you 10 years in the USA, and I bet Canada is no less friendly to receiver modification . There are a lot of restrictions specifically dealing with the SKS rifles, concerning magazines, clips, parts, etc.

There are entire websites dedicated to SKS and similar modification and rebuilding, so i think your question should be placed there.

Even though this subject comes close to the edge of the posting rules about illegal activities, I will leave it open, but please folks, don't post about making modifications to the rifle...just the HT info requested.
 
I wouldn't worry too much about the legality of the question

Since any of the forbidden go fast modifications would be all on the fire control parts & not the receiver or bolt, the question seems legit to me.

I have this book.
It's from 1982, so it's a bit dated but quite good.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/091067647X/ref=olp_product_details?ie=UTF8

They do a chop down of a Winchester model 70 to create a short length action that wasn’t being produced commercially.
You have to modify action, bolt and firing pin.
I've also seen bolt actions cut down to take a pistol cartridge to create a DeLisle type carbine.


I've seen both modifications here in Canada & there is not really any restriction on that sort of thing.
No one's going to stop you from cutting your gun in half :)
The only relevant restriction I can think of is a magazine limited to 5 rounds in a rifle.


Because the book is old, the welding technology is dated

On the bolt and firing pin, they are under compressive stress, they use silver solder/brazing
No idea what temperature or alloy.
They cut in the middle and use water or heat control paste to keep heat away from the critical Hted lug areas.
It makes sense since most bolt handles are attached with silver brazing the same way.

On the Win 70 action the action itself is in tension, so the weld is much more important.
They assume assume 4130 or similar alloy & use that alloy rod with gas torch welding and the same water or paste to keep heat from the critical areas.
Not only strength, but you need to keep the alloy the same so bluing will match.

I can see that TIG would now make more sense than gas welding for the action.
I would want to use a GOOD pro welder service.
Pre and post weld heat would be important for avoiding a heat affected zone and brittleness
I would want to do much more research on that.

It's an interesting project, but not simple.
Mandrels, jigs, milling machines are used to keep everything straight.
Sometimes projects are done, just for the sake of the project.
This bolt action mod makes sense to me, an SKS? Not so much, but it's cheap so have at it.
It would also affect your gas op rod length too.

SKS's were made in different countries to a wide variety of standards.
East Germany vs China?


Mods to lower power cartridges are safe enough, to higher ones – not on your life.

I agree with other comments, there are specific SKS forums with experienced users that have done those exact mods.



Every thing depends on the alloy of steel used
I would start with that



Frank de Haas, Shortening the 1917 Enfield Action Rifle 121 , January-February 1989
I'd love to have that article if anyone has it.
 
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Remember that there is a greater portion/length of an SKS action that sees loads in tension vs compression, than the mentioned M70 bolt action. Additonally, unless you verify the material in YOUR action, are an expert welder and heat treater, I would not try welding and heat treating it. 51,000 psi being released inches from face is serious business.
 
Sage advice:

Remember that there is a greater portion/length of an SKS action that sees loads in tension vs compression, than the mentioned M70 bolt action. Additonally, unless you verify the material in YOUR action, are an expert welder and heat treater, I would not try welding and heat treating it. 51,000 psi being released inches from face is serious business.
 
Well this gives me and idea or two.
I asked on SKS forums but nobody knows the.
I have long time memberships on SKS and general firearms forums.
This isnt an illegal thing here, Its just most ppl laugh at this idea.
Im trying to make my rifle fully left handed... not just left hand friendly.
I havent yet asked a gun smith yet directly.

Thanks !!
 
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