Recommend me some stones

T

the possum

Joined
Jul 31, 2002
Messages
2,954
Where do I start?

Been having some difficulty lately with new polishing methods, and the stones I have on hand ain't helping things. Diamond just ain't been consistent enough (worse than I remembered from last time), and the arkansas stones I own are too fine to remove metal, and at the same time don't leave a pleasing finish. So I've been thinking about trying something different for quite a while, but ain't had the cash to buy nothin'. Actually, I still don't have the cash, but may some day.

I have a bunch of specific things I'm looking for in stones, so I figured I'd just come here & get opinions from guys who use 'em.

1. First off, these will not really be used for sharpening knives. :eek: They will be used for polishing the blades of my miniature knives. This presents a bunch of challenges.

2. They must be perfectly flat, and pretty much stay that way. The edges and corners of the stones must also stay crisp- they're used to polish the shoulders of the grind. I'm guessing this eliminates a number of the natural water stones & softer manmade ones. Sandpaper in all its forms & methods of use has proven a nightmare.

3. The grit must be consistent. I don't want to spend hours on the stone to get everything perfectly flat, and then find out I have to go back down to much coarser sandpaper to remove stray deep scratches. This was the diamond stone's downfall for me. I have a bunch of cheap ceramic rods, and as they come, the surface looks pebbly or grainy- not consistent. And when I try to lap them smoother, they're ineffective.

4. They shouldn't be prone to galling. If I have to use oil or something, so be it, but I'd really rather not have to. I prefer dry sanding or water so I can easily see what the finish is looking like without oil on the surface of the steel.

5. Available in a range of grits, preferably all the way from 400 to 1500 or 2000. I'd just as soon use stones for all the polishing from the draw filing stage on.

6. Price? I can't afford a can of shoe polish right now, so obviously money is a factor. I will save to pay for quality because I've wasted hours and hours of work on my last blade due to poor tools (stones), and still ain't happy with it. But at the same time I don't want to shell out big bucks for something & then find out it doesn't work. I may just get something like a 1200 grit stone first, (of whatever type you guys recommend) to see what I can do with it before springing for more. Along those same lines, if I could get them from a company with a good return policy and dedication to customer service, it would be a plus.

So, where should I start lookin?
 
Hi, Justin,
That is indeed difficult. My thoughts go into three directions:
1) Norton India: They are hard, cut pretty fast, don't glaze, but they are not available in anything remotely as fine as 1200#

2) Spyderco ceramic stones: They will stay flat forever they are fine enough, they load up and glaze but you can remove the metal with a 3M sponge and some Ajax

3) Bester stones: They cut fast, they are fine enough they are hard and stay flat for a long time, but you have to flatten them (and reshape the corners) eventually. If you have a diamond stone/plate I would tend to suggest the Besters since they can be maintained true quite easily with a diamond stone.

Unfortunately, none of the options are really cheap. I would NOT go with the Norton Siliconcarbide stones: They are not nearly fine enough and they are not hard enough, they dish much more easily than the Bester stones.

I do have to add, that you are looking for the holy grail of sharpening stones. I think if something would exist that would fit your bill precisely, there wouldn't be any others stones anymore.
 
I really think water stones are what you are after. However, they don't stay flat and they are not cheap. Most are easily kept flat if you flatten them after or before every use, not a big deal really. There is a reason sword polishers use them because they work well for that type of work. Some cost less than others but to get a full range of grits it is going to cost you a few $. Skipping a grit can be done but it will produce more work than if you don't.
 
Jeff has a good thought! I'm a jeweler, and I use the heck out of silicon carbide wheels. They come in different grades and sizes (grits measured in microns). Polishing could be handled by motor driven felt wheels no faster than 3450 rpm and rouge suitable for steel. Also, a flexible shaft Dremel or Foredom can be set up with such wheels for detailed work. Check out Rio Grande's website, they'll sell to the general public.
 
I make a few miniatures, as well as restoring knives. A cheap 4000 grit waterstone will do about what you need. They are easy to flatten or shape.
I suggest hard felt wheels and Jantz Supply's greaseless compounds in 400, 600, and 800 grits, followed by rouge. You will need different wheels for each grit. www.jantzsupply.com
Polishing a miniature knife on a 3450 RPM wheel is an experience. I suggest 1750 RPM!
Silicon carbide (rubber) wheels will work well, too.
Bill
 
Thanks for the suggestions, guys.

I like the look of those little boron carbide paddles, but it seems for the price and grit size, I can get a full sized India stone that would work about the same for cheaper. With some searching, I found an India stone here, but was wondering what the actual grit size would be. Can you's recommend a place that gives more info?

For the finer grits, those Bester stones sound like just what I'm looking for. At least I think I found the correct ones- is this right? (do a search for Bester) Just need to save my nickels. (I give the pennys to my little girl for her piggy bank. :) )

I'm still wanting to try some sort of polishing compound on a hard surface, but tend to think hard plastic or something would work better than a glass plate, so the grit particles can actually embed themselves in the surface. I'm afraid otherwise the sharp edges around the blade would just scrape the grit off the glass rather than gliding over them.

For some more details on what I'm trying to accomplish, I shared a bit of my predicament a while back in this thread. I have never tried the natural water stones or small polishing wheels, but I really have my doubts about how well they'd work for what I'm trying to do. I can't keep the grind lines crisp enough with a few swipes of 1500 grit sandpaper glued to glass. :grumpy: So I really need things to stay perfectly flat. And I'm afraid a felt or rubber wheel would have too much "give" to it, and would round out the edges of my tang stamp, etc.
 
Eek. I guess India stones are coarser than I thought. I was hoping for something more like 400/600 grit. I use some great little needle files that leave a finish comparable to 320 grit sandpaper or so; so I don't really need the coarser grits.

oh, and have you checked...
Click to expand...

Nope. Didn't know they existed. But that's exactly why I came here asking. :D Thanks!
 
Yes, those are the Bester stones I was referring to. Another source would be here: http://www.hidatool.com/shop/shop.html

The same store sells steel plates for lapping purposes. The steel is milled perfectly flat and softer than glass, so that the particles can imbed better.

How large a stone do you need? You can buy Shapton slipstones for about $15. The 1000# Shapton has very similar properties as the Bester and while the Shapton is more expensive in a full size, you are saving a lot of money if you can live with a slip stone.

Well, I don't know about the grit size of the Norton India. I believe, I have, thanks to Sodak, essentially the same that you've linked to. It is hard to guess, but I think it is quite a bit finer than 220#. db I think, said he had seen the Norton fine listed as 320# and that is about even a bit coarser than what I would have guessed but right there in the 300eds seems reasonable to me. Most certainly not much finer though.
 
HoB said:
How large a stone do you need? You can buy Shapton slipstones for about $15. The 1000# Shapton has very similar properties as the Bester and while the Shapton is more expensive in a full size, you are saving a lot of money if you can live with a slip stone.
Click to expand...

Guess I can get by with a surface about 3" long and maybe 3/4"-1" wide. I might be able to make do with narrower, but it's nice to have the extra room when rubbing the whole blade flat on the stone. My google-fu is weak. Got any links?
 
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