Recommended source for Arkansas stones or am I wasting my time/money?

H

hal3134

Joined
Jul 26, 2015
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I have a soft Arkansas stone made by Hall Pro-edge. In addition I have a double sided leather strop; I use the green compound on the rough side and nothing on the smooth side. I can get a clean slice through paper with these tools but haven't been able to do a push cut. I'd like to take my knife sharpening to the next level, and suspect I need additional tools.

My initial thought is to buy the black surgical Arkansas stone, skipping over the hard Arkansas stone. Part of this (using arkansas stones) is driven by the idea that I already have the soft Arkansas stone, so sticking with a theme is good for consistency. I don't know that I want to spend the money for a hard and a black surgical stone. Would you agree with all this?

Also, I can't find a match to my current stone from Hall Pro-edge. The only Hall Pro-edge stones I can find are at knifecenter.com, but they don't look similar to what I already have. Mine came in a wood box, for example. The Best brand looks pretty similar. Did they buy-out Hall?

I've looked at the Lansky system and think it has some drawbacks for consistency. I like the Edge Pro kit but think it might be a little pricey for me. Same for the Wicked Edge. On the other hand, I'd like to hear your opinion as to whether I ought to get one of these kits nevertheless.
 
I use the Lansky system with pretty good results. I am able to push cut through paper after stropping... Usually I can't do that pre-strop though.

With the Lansky sharpening kit it's important to get the guide rods nice and straight first, and when tightening the set screw on them I always place the stone flat on the table to guarantee a consistent plane from rod to stone.

When I am actually sharpening I use a finger on my off-hand to hold the rod to the bottom of the hole in the guide clamp. Why the holes are that big I am not sure, but doing that eliminates any variable in angle for me.

If I am not "feeling it" when I sit down to sharpen my knife the results are always worse than if I'm in the zone when I sit down to work. I've also found I have to take a break after the first two stones, (I have the 5 stone kit).

All this to say, it may not necessarily be the tool that's holding you back from getting the result you want. I've found that I have better results by far if I wait to sharpen for a day where I really feel good about it, and I do a better job if I re-read some of the stickies in this section of the forum first too.
 
You can try Natural Whetstone Company and Dan's Whetstones.

Soft and hard Arkansas stones, and combo stones of the two, are not brutally expensive. However, when you get up into the Hard Black / Hard Translucent you can drop some pretty big dollars for a decent sized stone. Apparently the quarries are about played out for the top stones and hence the price is pretty steep.

I've got a 2-sided 8" Soft/Hard combo stone (not hard Black) that I got from Natural Whetstone Company that came in the (rather nice) wood box and that seems to work well for what it is.

You can get 8"x2" hard black for around $60 or so. For about the same money you could get a Spyderco Ultrafine ceramic 8x2 bench stone, so kind of up to you.

You could instead go with a water stone of some kind though you have to be careful to not contaminate the water stone with any oil, and you then have the added need to flatten the water stone.
 
hal3134 said:
I have a soft Arkansas stone made by Hall Pro-edge. In addition I have a double sided leather strop; I use the green compound on the rough side and nothing on the smooth side. I can get a clean slice through paper with these tools but haven't been able to do a push cut. I'd like to take my knife sharpening to the next level, and suspect I need additional tools....
Click to expand...
Hi,
Maybe you only need to change your technique?
Consider this video, see an edge formed on a P180/P320grit stone (125/45 micron), formed without stropping, do push cuts on newspaper at 90 degree, 45 tip left , 45 tip up, its almost first person point of view push cutting demo Normark EKA 12C27 : optimal edge geometry for slicing hardwoods (norton economy fine edge) - CliffStamp

Also, the edge pro patent is apparently expired, so the clones are legal and about same price as a lansky clone, for a review see Edge Pro Clone-Three Step/Plateau on Guided System
 
hal3134 said:
I have a soft Arkansas stone made by Hall Pro-edge. In addition I have a double sided leather strop; I use the green compound on the rough side and nothing on the smooth side. I can get a clean slice through paper with these tools but haven't been able to do a push cut. I'd like to take my knife sharpening to the next level, and suspect I need additional tools.

My initial thought is to buy the black surgical Arkansas stone, skipping over the hard Arkansas stone. Part of this (using arkansas stones) is driven by the idea that I already have the soft Arkansas stone, so sticking with a theme is good for consistency. I don't know that I want to spend the money for a hard and a black surgical stone. Would you agree with all this?

Also, I can't find a match to my current stone from Hall Pro-edge. The only Hall Pro-edge stones I can find are at knifecenter.com, but they don't look similar to what I already have. Mine came in a wood box, for example. The Best brand looks pretty similar. Did they buy-out Hall?

I've looked at the Lansky system and think it has some drawbacks for consistency. I like the Edge Pro kit but think it might be a little pricey for me. Same for the Wicked Edge. On the other hand, I'd like to hear your opinion as to whether I ought to get one of these kits nevertheless.
Click to expand...

Most important factor that's still missing above^: What steels will you be sharpening? Recommendations to buy the Arkansas stones won't be helpful without knowing what they'll be used for.

Arkansas stones can work nicely with simpler, less wear-resistant steels, like 1095, CV, 420HC, 440A. If you have any plans to use the stones for more wear-resistant steels like 440C, 154CM, D2, S30V, etc, you might (probably will) be disappointed with Arkansas stones, as they will have a tough time handling the very hard and sometimes very large carbides in those steels. Grinding will be very, very slow, and the stones themselves will wear and/or glaze very quickly, eventually rendering them ineffective on anything, without lapping or resurfacing them. For most of these steels, something like a silicon carbide stone (Norton Crystolon, for example) would do much better for heavier grinding tasks, and an aluminum oxide stone (like Norton's India) for refining. For S30V and beyond (S90V, 110V, etc), diamond hones will do best for those.


David
 
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hal3134 said:
I can get a clean slice through paper with these tools but haven't been able to do a push cut. I'd like to take my knife sharpening to the next level, and suspect I need additional tools.
Click to expand...

As others have said, on any thing other than simple steels, the Arkansas stones are going to struggle. You might only need a man made stone like the Norton Crystolon that Bucketstove linked you to. That's universally a good stone that will cut essentially any blade steel ever made.

But there's this thing about guys, hobbies, and gear. We ALWAYS want more gear. ...and we ALWAYS think that more gear will get the job done better. When the real truth is that better technique is almost always going to win over better gear.

If you're trying to sharpen any kind of modern stainless steel with your existing stones, definitely get a man made modern stone. Either way, I think you might learn some pointers or techniques that will help out. My Seven Secrets Of Sharpening is one good reference. I actually designed the Seven Secrets specifically for guys like you: Guys that can already sharpen pretty well, but think they can probably do better.

Good luck to you whatever path you take.

Brian.
 
I have translucent Arkansas from Best and it is very good quality. Being natural stones it can be tough to say from one to the next what the quality will be but mine is good.

Yes, skip the hard and go to the translucent or surgical black.

As mentioned above, the soft Arkansas can make a screaming edge that should be capable of crosscutting newsprint if used with care. In a progression it would fall right after the fine side of an India stone (approx).

Also as mentioned, be careful how you spend your money on these naturals. If primarily you use carbon steels or simple stainless you will get good if not great results. Otherwise they can be very frustrating. A pinch of silicon carbide powder of appropriate grit size can be put on top of the Arkansas to help with tougher steels (and condition the stone at same time) but is a work around and not a good long term solution if the higher carbide stainless are well represented among your edged tools.
 
Is the Norton Crystolon the equivalent grit of my soft Arkansas? If so then maybe it's best to get the Norton India to give me a finer grit.
 
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