Recurve Blades?

T

Tonie Nichols

Joined
Apr 8, 2004
Messages
277
I train defensive knife and Bowie and have never really considered a true kukri for self defense work; until I saw some interesting ones on the HI website. Since then I've been talking to the other guys in the class I attend about buying a HI Ang Khola as a Christmas gift for our teacher. He would get a kick out of using it on his heavily forested property.

But as I said I never purposely considered a Kukri for SD carry. However, while I was practicing today I pulled out one of my favorite edc's, a Cold Steel Desperado and suddenly a light went on! Wait a minute...isn't a recurved blade nothing more than a variant of the kukri!?

I'm not sure about the history of the recurve blade but it sure looks like a kukri influence to me. At the very least I'm sure they both share family roots. I guess this means that my Cold Steel Vaquero Grande could be a folding kukri.
 
Hello and Welcome!:)

Close but not quite right. I too had a CS Desperado (as a matter of fact, I will always remember that knife since it permanently damaged my little finger...my fault:o) From what I remember about the CS marketing blurb, the Nogalus (or however they spelled it) recurved blade was to ensure that both a push cut and a pull cut would create maximum shearing action. In a SD situation, a stab or a slash would inflict maximum damage on your target. In a hum drum daily chore, the crook of the knife would shear through fibrous stuff.

A khukuri on the other hand, is generally not designed for primarily push and pull cuts (although some models are great at those), but is designed for chopping. The mass and geometry of the blade brings maximum force to the "sweet spot" to generate a deep and powerful strike. The curve of the blade does have the nice byproduct of being great on springy tough grasses and the like with its sickle shape (if the khukuri model that you are using is light enough for such work).

You mentioned a recurved khuk for SD for your instructor. While heavy and not very concealable, the 18" UBE is a khuk with a swept up tip making it both pointy and massive. :thumbup:

Once again, welcome!:D
 
Steely,

Thanx for reminding me about that CS blurb, I'd forgotten all about it.

It's been a long time since I did any real research, but it seems to me that the Greek Kopis and the Machaira were both recurved blades, not of course to the extent of the CS Nogales, but definitely in the recurve knife family. As a matter of fact, the pictures I saw reminded me of the Pacific Cutlery Fer de Lance I had and of the Blackjack Mamba my teacher has. And if my memory isn't totally failing me, it was theorized that both of these were influences in the development of the kukri; the Greek weapons that is, not the knives. Damn my lousy sentence structure!

Of course I can only refer to them as theory because I sure can't prove it. Just as I can't make the connection between the Nogales and the Kopis. But obviously the recurve has been around for a long, long, lonnnnnggg time. I find it hard to believe that American knife makers suddenly came up with a design totally independent of something that's been around for millenia.

And as much as I do like Cold Steel knives, we all know that Lynn Thompson is not bashful about borrowing anything that isn't nailed down with a patent.
 
my greek kopis
kopis2.jpg


was descended from the egyptian kopesh (centre)
Egyptian-swords.jpg

(these are not mine)

the kopesh itself was descended from the egyptian battle axe
this shows the progressive development.
download.php

(again not my weapons)

the black sea yataghan is distinctly kopesh-like in my eyes anyway.
attachment.php

(again, not mine - i've been told these are quite difficult to handle effectively)

my karakulak yataghan
yat1-1.jpg

is another recurved east european/turkish/balkan item of kopis-like appearance.

middle eastern daggers are also found with recurved blades, this one of mine is double edged and razor sharp on both of them, was described as an assasin's dagger.
kindjal.jpg


the recurved blade made it's way into india, possibly via iskander, giving us kukhuri, and others.
kopis-blades.jpg

some even designed as thrusting only weapons like my armour piercing zira bouk
zirabouk.jpg


the recurved blade is found as far east as indonesia in my
rencong1.jpg

rencong amongst others, and even in some blades from the philippines..

and as far west as the nw african flyssa, which was the yataghan straightened out a bit,
the cutting edge sitll recurved tho, as in mine here:
flyssa01.jpg


as a related aside, the term 'falcata' is a victorian (19th c.) made-up name for the iberian version of the kopis brought to the area in pre-roman times by greek settlers. the roman variant was the machiara which was superseded by the gladius as individual warrior tactics were replaced by more effective unit tactics.
 
Steely_Gunz said:
You mentioned a recurved khuk for SD for your instructor. While heavy and not very concealable, the 18" UBE is a khuk with a swept up tip making it both pointy and massive. :thumbup:
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And let's not forget the kukri-yatagan hybrid called the 'Movie model', and the vicious-looking 'Ultimate Fighter'.

Until I finally decided on inquiring about a 25" Chitlangi, I had theorized on a Chitlangi-Khopesh hybrid but then figured I wouldn't like it as much as just a plain ol' 25" chitlangi. I love the things. The Chitlangi is a relatively narrow blade, but not too narrow...but not too wide. It is quick, yet powerful. Perfect!

And very good looking too. Who wants to fight zombies or aliens with a plain jane khukri?
 
sams said:
Great pics and information!
Thanks, I enjoyed it very much. :)
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Kismet said:
You are a teacher, Kronc.

Thank you.
Click to expand...

y'all are most welcome.

there is an old celtic tradition that a rich man is not measured by what he keeps for himself, but for what he gives to others. i am not rich in the personal possessions that the west uses as measures, but if i can save, enlighten and instruct even a little bit, i enrich us all. my way of counting coup.

(having said that, no y'all can't have any of my sharp pointy things yet. when i am gone they will move on of their own accord.)
 
Kronckew

Oh wow !! That stuff just blows me away, that is such wonderful information. Thank you for sharing that with us. That Rajput Sosun Pattah just looks so familiar, where have I seen THAT before. There really is nothing new under the sun!

Wolf- Thanx for reminding me about that Movie Model.

Does anybody have any information on the Movie Model; like dimensions and price?
 
Tonie Nichols said:
Wolf- Thanx for reminding me about that Movie Model.

Does anybody have any information on the Movie Model; like dimensions and price?
Click to expand...

The link Aardvark posted shows a nice Movie Model of the standard size, shape, and weight.

However if you'd like one made a little differently, maybe shorter or longer length, I'm sure Ms Yangdu can make your dream come true.

:thumbup:

I received email confirmation my 25" Chitlangi will be mailed to me tomorrow. Yangdu sent me pics of it and it is stunningly beautiful - and made by master kami BURA!

Can't wait!:D:cool:

I like my khukris BIG; at least 20". I'm 6'5" and they feel better to me than a 15". A khukri of 20" or more isn't just a powerful brush clearing tool... it's also a very effective short sword. I would NOT want to be hit by one of those things!:eek:
 
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