recycled steel

D

delbert ealy

Joined
May 3, 2004
Messages
979
I'm sorry if this offends, but I really have to get this off my chest. Why would anybody use recycled steel? Excellent quality steel in annealed ready to use condition is available in almost any size conceivable. This steel is not cost prohibitive. For example a 1/8 x 1 x 18" bar of o-1 is $6.87 and 1/4 x 1 x 18 is $11.16. In fact many pieces of recycled steel are not the ideal size. You wind up spending more time than a new piece is worth. Are there really so many makers with more time than money? :eek: Do you really want to trust a piece of steel without knowing exactly what it is, even if it passes the "spark test". I am a damascus maker, and I use all new materials with one exception; metallic meteorite. The customers who purchase this material know exactly what they are getting. Another material I could understand using is wrought iron. I have not used this, but I have some and plan to use it for fittings. But this is a material that is not available new. Can any of you really justify your use of recycled steel?
Delbert Ealy
by recycled I mean steel other than mill run, like files springs saw blades shear blades bearings
 
This bucket-o-worms has been repeatedly discussed many times here, Del. It does indeed prove to be food for lively discussion. So to be frank, here's my end of it.

Damascus: Use proven steels from a reputable company. If your business is making damascus how can you afford to include an unknown variable into your formula?

Anything else: Use what you want.

Certain sources of "found" steels are proven and reliable and make good blades. Old leaf and coil springs from the early 1900s to mid-century were all smelted for a particular purpose, such as springs, or die steel. Some knifemakers feel that this steel is very good indeed, being it hasn't been recycled many times over. In fact, the precision ground flat stock we all know and love is most likely high in recycled content.

So I say old steel definitely has its uses, and we make fine cutlery from it every day. What I wouldn't give for a nice sawblade made of shear steel right now! :p
 
New steel turns out to crap more often than I would care to mention. Inclusions,stress cracks , and alloy banding that looks like poop when its etched. You are still intrusting the steel supplier to send what you order also, which doesnt always happen. It's as much of a crap shoot as using new steel as recycled unfortunately.
 
My two cents are: One, there is something about making a good and useable tool out of a piece of broken or otherwise usless material. And, If you have a lot of material that is known (what it is or how it works) why give yourself an expense that is unnecessary?
 
You have a number of reasons now. The fact is that if you don't deal with a particular supplier all the time, you are never quite sure what you have. For me that's a reason but a small one.

Riley said it pretty well. Much of knife making is getting personal gratification from the art. Using your analogy, why would anyone profile their blades when you can have them laser cut. Why would you heat treat your own blades when an outside company can do it.

The answer is that you get satisfaction from doing it yourself.

Another BIG reason I scrounge steel is that I hate the waste of todays society. Passing perfectly good steel that will go into manhole covers is sinful to my way of thinking.

Now you have one or two more reasons some of us use recycled steel!
 
new steel is recycled steel anyhow :confused: :confused: :confused:
I use new steel sometimes.

I live about 4 miles from a steel mill, load after car load of pipe, steelwheels, barrels, refrigs, buicks, scrap mild, and shredded stuff go into the mill daily.

It all depends on your market, RR spike knifes haver KEWL Factor, saw blade knifes have KEWL Factor.

Anybody see the knifes made from scrap from the world trade towers?

You cain't* make a knife like that from new steel.

I've made knifes from a piece of somebody's favorite old Studebaker, Rudy Ruana used to favor Studebaker springs.

*spelled that way on purpose.

I'll do it my way, thank you very much.
 
I think that recycled steel can be a good thing, but not for a custom maker. for someone starting out with limited supplies and or funds, it could prove beneficial for practicing stuff like hammer techniques and grinding techniques. ts really cheap and through some methods (too lengthy to deal with) one can determine how to treat it to have a substantial blade for at home or shop use. but i think the question at hand is why would a custm maker use such a thing in producing his damascus or even a homogenous blade. when i make damascus i say i use L6 ut really its some unknown bandsaw blade. close enough for my personal uses but for someone like you Del, it would be false advertising
 
I use recycled steel, and here's why...

1) I'm out of work and can get scrap free

2) I'm too newbie to sell my work so why pay for the supplies

3) When I show my friends a knife and a ball bearing and say, "This knife used to look like this." they say, "Wow."

p.s. Fonzie makes knives?!
 
hey guys thanks for the input, I just wanted to put in my two cents. Peter I agree entirely with the issue of waste, when I make damascus there is about 40% waste and this gets recycled. This waste is in the form of end cutoffs and grindings. I make several ladder-based patterns and about half of it ends up as dust. I abhor our wasteful society and one day we will all pay for it, or our descendants will.
Delbert
 
Like Sweeny said, tons of "new" steel is recycled steel. Plenty of good blades made by good makers from recycled steel. I think the important factor is where you get the recycled steel from - in other words the quality of the product that the steel was before (John Deere 52100 load shafts come to mind, it was load shafts right?).

Tim
 
TimWieneke said:
Like Sweeny said, tons of "new" steel is recycled steel. Plenty of good blades made by good makers from recycled steel. I think the important factor is where you get the recycled steel from - in other words the quality of the product that the steel was before (John Deere 52100 load shafts come to mind, it was load shafts right?).

Tim
Click to expand...

Tim, it is load shafts or rock shafts, but the steel is 5160.
 
yahhup a can of worms.. :) good one
if I take and use a commercial Bandsaw blade
chances are it was made to cut wood and that 36" (foot) blade
can run $800.00 SO I would say that steel is what it was made
for and it's not going to change between hands and some bozo
painting it wrong :eek: .. when I get steel from
who ever (like said here before) do you know
what you're really getting?
weigh it out
commercial Bandsaw blade made to cut logs everyday
or steel from who? or what middle man :confused: ;)
 
Fonzie only made knives in stir.

Daniel Winkler I was thinking about. :footinmou

Trap spring knives are hard to keep in stock too.

you cain't catch fish without worms. :D :D :D
 
I use both known and scrap, mostly my straight carbon is 52100 from Rex Walther and is very good stuff, got to get around to ordering some more. I mainly went to his steel because of variences in used bearings and running into bearings that were not 52100.

I make damascus out of 1084/1520 for predictible results, and wire rope damascus, and chain damascus, and frontier damascus that has everything including the kitchen sink! Some times when I'm at the forge I look through my scrap pile and wonder"if put that wrench in the mix with that roller bearing, and that file with that door hinge..." But those are one of a kinds and require a good bit of playing with the heat treat to make a good knife, but it's fun.

If I were selling damascus barstock I would only buy new steel from a reputable supplier and insist on a spec. analisis.
 
About ten years ago my wife and her girl friend went to junk yard in a spooky part of town and bought a big, complete, entire set of springs off a big truck for me for a birthday present. I have made several knives from this stock, all turned out fine. It is very good steel. Is it 5160? or something else? ..dont know. Dont need to know. I do know it is excellent spring steel and makes a good blade. The big draw back is the large amount of labor required to cut it up into forgeable stock. If one had a press to cut it up or a huge shear that could cut 3/8 inch stock, etc it might be different. I appreciate the thriftyness of recycling, the "I-made-It-My-Selfness" of the thing, but unless you start with small stock it just is too much work. It aint some Zen trip to the summit. :rolleyes:
 
I like recycled steels - my favourite is old files (I only use the 2 brands I trust) and old crosscut saws for the very very thin kitchen knives. Everything that everyone has said, I would claim as my own reasons for using recycled steel. Including the art / creativity / I madeitmyself concepts... Recycling ITSELF is an attraction to me. There are many customers who find that these same concepts appeal to them. Some in the buckskinner / blackpowder / primitive archery / re-enactment type interest groups want nothing else ! Within reason, recycled steels can be identified and used regularly provided there is a consistent supply. And believe it or not, there are places in the world where reliable sources of good knifemaking steel are few and far inbetween... Jason.
 
When I drove for Western Oil (they have a different name now) I noticed a set of springs for a driver axle for a 68 Mack truck. They were about 10 years old and were never used. I asked about them and got permission to haul them off. The leaves are about 1/4" thick and make a very tough knife. I recieved about 160# of top quality steel for nothing. And when an oil field hand asks what it is made of they are impressed with it as they know that Mack springs is good steel.
 
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