-
The BladeForums.com 2024 Traditional Knife is ready to order! See this thread for details: https://www.bladeforums.com/threads/bladeforums-2024-traditional-knife.2003187/
Price is$300$250 ea (shipped within CONUS). If you live outside the US, I will contact you after your order for extra shipping charges.
Order here: https://www.bladeforums.com/help/2024-traditional/ - Order as many as you like, we have plenty.
Red-Shouldered hawk nest.
- Thread starter Lycosa
- Start date
- Joined
- May 18, 1999
- Messages
- 15,395
Hmmppff, prove it. IOW, this thread useless without pics.
So where and when did you find the nest? Any youngens in it?
How close were you able to get to the nest? You do know to leave any feathers you might find totally alone don't you?
- Joined
- May 18, 1999
- Messages
- 15,395
Terry it's against federal law to have any Bird of Prey feathers or body parts in your possession unless you're American Indin and have a permit from the Federal Repository.
It's quite a rigamarole even for us ndns to get feathers for dance outfits or ceremonies.
Google Eagle Feathers and you should get all the info you ever wanted to know about Birds of Prey or Migratory Bird Feathers.
- Joined
- Aug 24, 2007
- Messages
- 43,271
YVSA---KWE KWE. I do not have a camera that will give a good pic. Proof: My baby sitter was a bird watcher and I've been birding my whole life. The hawk was on the nesting site in March and the hawks call, kee-yer, was the give-away. I had a WCO from the Game Commission, tell me to remove the feathers I found, hanging from my truck mirror. I told him that I follow Native American Spirituallity but you are right, only an Indian is allowed to use feathers! Those feathers are now in my shop. I believe they were a gift to me. Have you read, Exiled in the Land of the Free??
Esav Benyamin
MidniteSuperMod
- Joined
- Apr 6, 2000
- Messages
- 90,915
That government silliness is to remove the temptation to get feathers directly fom the birds before they're done with them.
- Joined
- Jan 30, 2002
- Messages
- 7,269
Esav Benyamin
And they are quite serious, if not terribly organized about it.
Twenty years ago, my first Winter here, I walked through the woods on Christmas Day. Winter had come early and harshly, little melting. The raptors that did not migrate were occasionally seen on trees over-hanging rural roads, as if the salted tarmac were streams.
It was a day of high temperatures around zero Farenheit and I struggled, walking through some mature oaks and brush junk trees on a slope---land that couldn't be tilled and thus, was allowed to keep its woodland. There's a fair amount of patches like these, the topography identified as prairie woodland or oak savannah, upon which fires would rage before it was settled in the mid- and late 1800s. The prairie grass would catch fire and rage flame across the high grasslands, scorching, but not killing the thick-barked oaks. The junk trees would go up, as would the brush, and the earth would be cleared for the next growth.
I knew my neighbors, really just by name, at this time. I hadn't gotten a dog yet, and I'd dissuaded my daughters from driving up in the miserable weather to visit. I was out celebrating Christmas away from the world.
At the very edge of the woods, about three-quarters of a mile from the house, I came upon a Great Horned Owl at the base of a tree. It was lying as if it were posed, eyes wide open, talons clenched, wings tight to its sides. There was no sign of predation, no blood nor apparent injury to the cadaver. There were no electric transformers within a half mile of the site. Birds of prey are often found at the base of transformer poles, having electrocuted themselves as they perched for prey spotting.
This was an adult bird, lying as if placed there in respect, with no sign of a fall or a struggle anywhere near the area.
It was a beautiful specimen. It seemed a shame to let scavengers ravage the majesty of the bird, so I put it in a shoulder bag I carry and called my meanderings off for the day.
At home, a closer (and warmer) inspection showed no bullet holes, no sign of trauma of any sort. It was perhaps 14-16 inches tall, magnificent coloring, clenched talons, a beak tightly curled and looking razor sharp. I wanted this bird in my home. Carefully, I put it in plastic bags and placed it in the freezer in the basement.
Following the holiday, I started my calling to find out what the rules were for Great Horned Owls. Very few people knew. I finally reached a DNR person in Madison who told me I was VERY lucky I'd reached her, and not an enforcement officer, because I had, and was, committing a federal crime.
Huh. What crime? Migratory raptors a federally protected. I should have left the magnificent shell in the woods for coyotes and mice. I didn't argue, but very respectfully asked...who benefited from the destruction of the bird's carcass. "No one," she said, "but that's the law...however...I could drive out there and take possession of the bird's body."
Uh...OK. Here's my address.
Three months passed and no sign of her. I called again, couldn't locate her. Turned out that around this time the Exxon Valdez had spilled and the DNR labs in Wisconsin were hired to do necropsies on some of the cadavers.
Called a few more times, no joy. I DID find out that only registered Wildlife Centers and educational displays were allowed to have these birds. No one said anything about native Americans at the time.
So, I left it in the freezer. Every year or so following, I'd call around and find out that no one wanted the bird to have mounted for their displays, and yes, it was very illegal for me to have one. No special exceptions allowed, under any circumstances.
Three years later, I got a hold of a DNR guy down in a smaller town. He said he'd take possession of the bird. I drove down, and gave it to him. We chatted. Nice young man. He said the bird probably died of dehydration, with the field voles and mice out of sight under the snow, and a fair amount of hard ice even over the smaller flowing waters.
He'd called around and found, as I had, that no centers wanted the bird---still magnificent in all its aspects.
But...he said...his wife was taking a taxidermy course and he could allow her to mount the bird, anticipating the day when it could be donated. With his permission, she could accept it.
So, for three years I was in violation of Federal Laws. I just couldn't, COULDN'T, bury the bird or leave it to predation. There was, and is, a majesty to these great predators that prohibited such a travesty.
I understand the law, and the reasons for it. As Esav B says, humans would kill them for either collection or, more likely, just to kill...like shooting crows.
I still am wistful that I couldn't keep the creature; still somewhat resentful that circumstances of her husband's employment allowed the DNR's wife to keep it; and still amazed at the beauty and craftsmanship of nature, creating such a magnificent specialized aerial hunter.
By the end of the episode, I knew more than most of the law enforcement agencies in the area about Federal Migratory laws.
Kis
enjoy every sandwich
And they are quite serious, if not terribly organized about it.
Twenty years ago, my first Winter here, I walked through the woods on Christmas Day. Winter had come early and harshly, little melting. The raptors that did not migrate were occasionally seen on trees over-hanging rural roads, as if the salted tarmac were streams.
It was a day of high temperatures around zero Farenheit and I struggled, walking through some mature oaks and brush junk trees on a slope---land that couldn't be tilled and thus, was allowed to keep its woodland. There's a fair amount of patches like these, the topography identified as prairie woodland or oak savannah, upon which fires would rage before it was settled in the mid- and late 1800s. The prairie grass would catch fire and rage flame across the high grasslands, scorching, but not killing the thick-barked oaks. The junk trees would go up, as would the brush, and the earth would be cleared for the next growth.
I knew my neighbors, really just by name, at this time. I hadn't gotten a dog yet, and I'd dissuaded my daughters from driving up in the miserable weather to visit. I was out celebrating Christmas away from the world.
At the very edge of the woods, about three-quarters of a mile from the house, I came upon a Great Horned Owl at the base of a tree. It was lying as if it were posed, eyes wide open, talons clenched, wings tight to its sides. There was no sign of predation, no blood nor apparent injury to the cadaver. There were no electric transformers within a half mile of the site. Birds of prey are often found at the base of transformer poles, having electrocuted themselves as they perched for prey spotting.
This was an adult bird, lying as if placed there in respect, with no sign of a fall or a struggle anywhere near the area.
It was a beautiful specimen. It seemed a shame to let scavengers ravage the majesty of the bird, so I put it in a shoulder bag I carry and called my meanderings off for the day.
At home, a closer (and warmer) inspection showed no bullet holes, no sign of trauma of any sort. It was perhaps 14-16 inches tall, magnificent coloring, clenched talons, a beak tightly curled and looking razor sharp. I wanted this bird in my home. Carefully, I put it in plastic bags and placed it in the freezer in the basement.
Following the holiday, I started my calling to find out what the rules were for Great Horned Owls. Very few people knew. I finally reached a DNR person in Madison who told me I was VERY lucky I'd reached her, and not an enforcement officer, because I had, and was, committing a federal crime.
Huh. What crime? Migratory raptors a federally protected. I should have left the magnificent shell in the woods for coyotes and mice. I didn't argue, but very respectfully asked...who benefited from the destruction of the bird's carcass. "No one," she said, "but that's the law...however...I could drive out there and take possession of the bird's body."
Uh...OK. Here's my address.
Three months passed and no sign of her. I called again, couldn't locate her. Turned out that around this time the Exxon Valdez had spilled and the DNR labs in Wisconsin were hired to do necropsies on some of the cadavers.
Called a few more times, no joy. I DID find out that only registered Wildlife Centers and educational displays were allowed to have these birds. No one said anything about native Americans at the time.
So, I left it in the freezer. Every year or so following, I'd call around and find out that no one wanted the bird to have mounted for their displays, and yes, it was very illegal for me to have one. No special exceptions allowed, under any circumstances.
Three years later, I got a hold of a DNR guy down in a smaller town. He said he'd take possession of the bird. I drove down, and gave it to him. We chatted. Nice young man. He said the bird probably died of dehydration, with the field voles and mice out of sight under the snow, and a fair amount of hard ice even over the smaller flowing waters.
He'd called around and found, as I had, that no centers wanted the bird---still magnificent in all its aspects.
But...he said...his wife was taking a taxidermy course and he could allow her to mount the bird, anticipating the day when it could be donated. With his permission, she could accept it.
So, for three years I was in violation of Federal Laws. I just couldn't, COULDN'T, bury the bird or leave it to predation. There was, and is, a majesty to these great predators that prohibited such a travesty.
I understand the law, and the reasons for it. As Esav B says, humans would kill them for either collection or, more likely, just to kill...like shooting crows.
I still am wistful that I couldn't keep the creature; still somewhat resentful that circumstances of her husband's employment allowed the DNR's wife to keep it; and still amazed at the beauty and craftsmanship of nature, creating such a magnificent specialized aerial hunter.
By the end of the episode, I knew more than most of the law enforcement agencies in the area about Federal Migratory laws.
Kis
enjoy every sandwich
Esav Benyamin
MidniteSuperMod
- Joined
- Apr 6, 2000
- Messages
- 90,915
We see so many laws passed in legislative ignorance, even conservation laws, that it's easy to be cynical. And enforcement will always be less than perfect. But when people would shoot eagles for their feathers, who couldn't tell an eagle feather from a turkey feather, I'm glad we have some regulation of the trade.
- Joined
- Oct 19, 2005
- Messages
- 19,793
This year, for some reason, huge swarms of turkey vultures decended on the little town next door to the town I went to high school in, Bartow Florida. They were tearing the shingles off peoples rooves, and generally being disturbances. There was a story about it in the papers. Turns out that they were protected by the Migratory bird regulations, and even scaring them off your roof was a crime. You literally had to watch them eat your shingles rather than chasing them away with broom.
Sheesh. Some silly laws.
Sheesh. Some silly laws.
- Joined
- Jun 14, 2000
- Messages
- 15,401
Yes. Yes they do. As evidenced by my roof. I'm missing about 3 square feet of shingling on the roof over my kitchen. Bastard birds.
Esav Benyamin
MidniteSuperMod
- Joined
- Apr 6, 2000
- Messages
- 90,915
We've gotta lot of them in town, and now I know why -- they've put out the word about Ken's delicious roof!
Esav Benyamin
MidniteSuperMod
- Joined
- Apr 6, 2000
- Messages
- 90,915
For someone who wants a legal eagle and feathers, here's one way to go
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=553605
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=553605
- Joined
- May 18, 1999
- Messages
- 15,395
The best I can recall as it's been a long while since I was involved for an ndn to be able to get legal feathers he or she has to either send off for the requisition/application for migratory or bird of prey parts, whole, or feathers or print one off from the gubbiment page. Then he or she has to take/send them to either the chief of their tribe or a representative thereof to have them sign the paper and IIRC they also have to get a signature from another tribal member as well.
When you get the signed requisition back you have to send it off to the office that will issue a temporary permit that again IIRC will be sent a bit before you get your bird or feathers.
After you get your bird or feathers you have to let the permit office know so they can start the procedure to process your permanent permit.
It depends on the amount of birds, bird parts, or feathers the Federal Repository gets and how many applications have been sent in as too how soon you will be able to get your bird, bird parts, or feathers. And also depending on how busy the permit office happens to be depends on how long it will be before you get your permanent permit.
Sometimes it can take several years to get what you applied for. What's nice is sometimes when just plain feathers are requested the repository will get in a really nice specimen and they will call you and ask if the whole bird will do instead of just the feathers.
My sister got an exceptionally beautiful Golden Eagle like that.:thumbup:
When you get the signed requisition back you have to send it off to the office that will issue a temporary permit that again IIRC will be sent a bit before you get your bird or feathers.
After you get your bird or feathers you have to let the permit office know so they can start the procedure to process your permanent permit.
It depends on the amount of birds, bird parts, or feathers the Federal Repository gets and how many applications have been sent in as too how soon you will be able to get your bird, bird parts, or feathers. And also depending on how busy the permit office happens to be depends on how long it will be before you get your permanent permit.
Sometimes it can take several years to get what you applied for. What's nice is sometimes when just plain feathers are requested the repository will get in a really nice specimen and they will call you and ask if the whole bird will do instead of just the feathers.
My sister got an exceptionally beautiful Golden Eagle like that.:thumbup:
- Joined
- Jun 16, 2003
- Messages
- 20,206
We are fortunate to have Red Shoulder Hawks nesting just across the road to the south. When we first moved here, I'd whistle the pattern of their triple call. Sounded nothing like them really, but they'd fly over to see what the fuss was. Now they don't bother ("Silly human!").
My great joy is to see the adults dance across the sky after their chicks are fledged.
Due to the relatively mild winters, they have stayed all year for eleven years.
Same pair? Not sure, but they stay in the same tree.
The crows were after one of them a few years ago, but the other was flying "high cover," dove, and zapped one of the crows. More respect has been shown since. (Do crows have a "dangerous hawks" blog?)
Many bird species are subject to federal law that restrict possession of their body parts, including featehrs: http://www.fws.gov/migratorybirds/intrnltr/mbta/mbtintro.html
My great joy is to see the adults dance across the sky after their chicks are fledged.
Due to the relatively mild winters, they have stayed all year for eleven years.
Same pair? Not sure, but they stay in the same tree.
The crows were after one of them a few years ago, but the other was flying "high cover," dove, and zapped one of the crows. More respect has been shown since. (Do crows have a "dangerous hawks" blog?)
Many bird species are subject to federal law that restrict possession of their body parts, including featehrs: http://www.fws.gov/migratorybirds/intrnltr/mbta/mbtintro.html
Last edited:
- Joined
- Apr 26, 2007
- Messages
- 957
That reminds me of when I was at the range last week when I was getting ready to put my stuff back into the car when I saw a bird of prey a couple hundred feet up, apparently catching a thermal off the blacktop. I thought they were turkey vultures, so I reached back into my bag and pulled out my binoculars. It was a red-tailed hawk! As I watched it, I heard something off to my right. Two more hawks calling as they circled beyond the skeet range!
Didn't have my camera, but since it was such a bright day and the extent of my zoom is only 55mm, it probably wouldn't have done much good.
Didn't have my camera, but since it was such a bright day and the extent of my zoom is only 55mm, it probably wouldn't have done much good.