red's first file knife and basic guide

Joined
Nov 30, 2010
Messages
5
alright, after all my talking and boasting that im going to start my first project soon, i believe i finally have all my materials and my process memorized.

first, my materials: two mill bastard files, a grinder of unknown make and model with a rough side and a fine side (medium work will be done with my file, im starting from scratch so i bought two, one to make into a knife another to.. well, file i guess lol) 1 x 4 - 12" app grade lumber (dont know much about this either, the only identifying mark is the phrase 'weathershield premium wood' on the bar code and the abovementioned measurements, its to be expected i suppose, as it was purchased from a scrap bin at home depot) a rather dubious looking weber grill (might put the body below ground, for safety since im fairly certain the legs are broken) a bag of kingsford competition charcoal briquettes, and three separate whetstones with different degrees of coarseness for the finer work.

now, my process: first i anneal the file in the charcoal, heat it until red hot and let cool very slowly. next, i use the grinder and file to shape the knife body and remove all excess metal, form the bevel and get as sharp as i can make it, then polish as best i can so that i am better able to see the colors of the heated metal. next, before hardening, drill holes in tang for handle material to be attached via pins inserted through the holes. now for rehardening, which is accomplished by bringing the annealed file back up to red hot temperature and quickly quenching it in motor oil or (as may be the case for me, as i might not be able to acquire the motor oil) lukewarm water wwith salt added (one cup of salt per gallon of water). next comes tempering, which from my understanding needs to be done as soon as possible due to chemical and structural stresses within the blade which may cause it to spontaneously crack or break; at this point ive researched several different theories, feel free to correct me on any point ive made or am going to make during this entire tutorial, any kind of criticism is openly welcomed and encouraged: tempering can be done by holding a gas or propane torch to the spine of the blade until the entire spine becomes red hot then you either a: let it cool slowly or b: quench it again, i was never able to figure out for sure which is the correct method. anyways another way to temper your blade is to preheat your oven to 400 degrees fahrenheit and place the blade directly on oven rack and let sit for one hour, allow to return to room temperature at its own pace (im not sure how this gives the flexible spine and hard edge that we want, i was never able to contact the person who wrote that guide but theoretically his knives are being used in different scenarios)

finishing steps: clean, polish and sharpen your blade. attach handle material and insert pins,, use epoxy between the blade and material if you wish but personally im not going to, thats just my choice and is not intended as a recommendation or suggestion, lord knows ive stalked the forums long enough scrounging up alll the information i can. you guys know worlds more than i do, i cant wait to show you all my first handmade bushcraft/survival knife no matter how good or bad it turns out, wish me luck!!

a couple notes: obviously im from america, in case nobody could tell, i say this as a matter of etiquette as this is a u.k based site so in case one person or another isnt familiar with our system of measurement, im sure you can find a reliable table online somewhere.
i know this post may seem unnecessarily long or perhaps not detailed enough, but given the amount of trouble ive had in understanding the entire process even with all the help ive received i dont feel at all ashamed of the questions ive asked or the points ive made, no progress is made until someone asks a question my point is that id like to write a guide from my point of view, to bring the craft to a wider number of people because i know that if even i can make all the dots connect in my head, anybody can.
im thinking of using this post as a template for my guide, this is why criticism is so openly welcome in my case, because i still have a lot to learn and if i can revise my guide then anybody who may read it will benefit.

i believe that about sums it up so thanks again to everybody whos helped me out and answered my questions, i cant wait to start tomorrow, which in my case will be december 1st 2010
 
Welcome to the forums. Most of the members are USA folks.

A few tips I give youngsters ,like yourself, is;
1) Post where you live....Spokan, WA is a bit more useful than USA. There might be a maker the next street over who can help you.
2) Use correct punctuation and capitalization. I know the texting your friends is done as you posted, but in a more professional world, it is frowned on.
3) I have an excellent tutorial that you can use to guide you on the project. It is in the stickies at the top of this sub-forum. http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=694673
4) Take your time. It will take several weeks to make your first knife if done right. If you do it in a day....it will look like it took that long.
5) a two wheel grinder is better than nothing, but is going to be only useful to remove the bulk of extra metal. Once it is ground off to profile the blade, the work should be done with files and sanding paper ( wet-or-dry).

Ask questions. here is several thousand years of experience totaled in this forum. You can get advise from some of the best in the business.

Be proud of your hand made first knife, but expect your second knife to be much better than your first knife....it is a learning process based on experience and gaining skill. Your tenth should make you want to hide your first.
 
Um, where do you get that this is a U.K. based site? The owner of the site lives in Louisville, KY., if I'm not mistaken?
 
Stacy has is right, bud. Take your time and read the stickies at the top of the page. His knifemaking tutorial is excellent for a beginner... definately read that!

You are not going to make your dream knife, first time out. You have to develope as a knifemaker before you can make a good knife. This is your training time. Make the most of it by learning from folks who have been there and done that. I love the line...

"Your tenth should make you want to hide your first."

... because Stacy used the word SHOULD instead of WILL. I don't know if he intended it this way but to me, it stresses that this is a path of learning. If you have the right attitude you SHOULD be improving with every project.

Don't forget to have fun and post pictures!!!


Rick
 
This was posted/pasted on BB as well, I suspect he may have gotten mixed up as to which forum is where hehe. On there his member info shows he is from Texas but no city.
 
BTW, you need to understand tempering much better. When the time comes, don't do what you wrote. Just place the knife in the kitchen oven and bake at 450F for two hours. Take it out and rinse in running water to cool off. Put back in and bake two more hours. That will fully temper the blade and have it ready to finish the sanding and handle.
 
.......... I love the line...

"Your tenth should make you want to hide your first."

... because Stacy used the word SHOULD instead of WILL. I don't know if he intended it this way but to me, it stresses that this is a path of learning............

I once had a new maker send me photos of his first six knives. They were all pretty rough. He asked about some problems he had encountered, one dealing with drilling the holes in the hard steel ( he ended up just gluing the scales on), and one on how to finish the front of the scales without ruining the blade ( which he did on every knife).
It only took a few seconds to realize he made them all at the same time.

Take the time to do each knife as a separate project. When done, critique them yourself, and then get the opinion of others with more experience. Use that info to make the next one.....and the progress will show.
 
I have to admit, I didn't read every word.

Capitals, and spacing really help me read.

I didn't see a question, but Stacy is right, you need help with the heat treatment process.

Watch this once a day for 10 days, and you should understand the process much better.
Heat Treating Basics Video-downloadable
http://www.archive.org/download/gov.ntis.ava08799vnb1/ava08799vnb1_512kb.mp4

Since this is your first knife and first post. I'm going to hit you with this.
It should answer most of your questions.

I would also like to specifically point out Stacy's instruction thread.
It's great to have a point by point how to for reference.



Have you seen this ?

The Standard Reply to Newbies v10

The answer to a 13 year old student is different than to a 40 year old engineer.
We may recommend a local supplier, or you may have a helpful neighbour; but that depends on where you are.
Fill out your profile with your location (Country and State at least), age, education, employment.

Look at the threads stickied at the top; many are expired, but not all.

The basic process in the simplest terms

Absolute Cheapskate Way to Start Making Knives-Printable PDF
Absolute Cheapskate Way to Start Making Knives-Website


Detailed instructions by Stacy E.Apelt.
Detailed instructions by Stacy E.Apelt

The Things I Advise New Knife Makers Against-Printable PDF


Books

A list of books and videos on the KnifeDogs Forum
http://www.knifedogs.com/showthread.php?t=5285

BladeForums - E-books or Google books
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=603203

I like:
David Boye-Step by Step Knifemaking
Tim McCreight-Custom Knifemaking: 10 Projects from a Master Craftsman
These are clear, well organized, widely available and inexpensive too.

Knife Design:
On the Google books thread, you can find
Lloyd Harding drawings
and
the Loveless book with large variety of proven classic styles.
Google books thread


Forging Books:
Lorelei Sims-The Backyard Blacksmith
An excellent modern book with colour photos for forging in general - no knifemaking.

Jim Hrisoulas- has 3 books on forging knives. Check for the cheaper paperback editions.
The Complete Bladesmith: Forging Your Way to Perfection
The Pattern-Welded Blade: Artistry in Iron
The Master Bladesmith: Advanced Studies in Steel

Machine Shop Basics -Books:
Elementary Machine Shop Practice-Printable PDF

Machine Shop Tools-Printable PDF

The Complete Practical Machinist-Printable PDF


The $50 knife Shop
It confused me for a long time.
Forging is NOT necessary; you can just file and grind to create a knife (stock removal)

The goop quench is total Bull, commercial quench oils are available, even grocery store canola oil works much better.

Junkyard steels require skill and experience to identify the steel and heat treat it properly.
You can buy proper steel like 1084 very cheaply.

I like cable damascus, but that is an advanced project that has no place in a beginners book.

The home built grinders are the best thing about this book, but there is now a huge amount of info for 2x72” belt grinders on the web, including free plans.


Videos

Heat Treating Basics Video-downloadable
http://www.archive.org/download/gov.ntis.ava08799vnb1/ava08799vnb1_512kb.mp4

Many specific how to knifemaking videos are available, some are better than others.

The best overall Knifemaking video I have seen is
“Steve Johnson-Making a Sub-Hilt Fighter”

The best video on leather sheath making I have seen is
“Custom Knife Sheaths -Chuck Burrows - Wild Rose”
-(Paul Long has 2 new videos, his sheath work is fantastic. I hope the videos are too)

You can see a list of videos and reviews at this rental company; some are worth buying, some renting…
They are slow to get new titles and wait times are measured in months,
http://smartflix.com/store/category/9/Knifemaking

Green Pete's Free Video
Making a Mora bushcraft knife, stock removal, hand tools, neo tribal / unplugged heat treat.
"Green Pete" posted it free using torrent files.

Greenpete Knifemaking Basics-on TPB
You can also find it on YouTube broken into 4 parts.

Draw Filing Demonstration
YouTube video -Draw Filing-for a flat finish

Steel
The “welding steel” at Home Depot / Lowes… is useless for knives.
If you send out for heat treating, you can use A2, CM154, ATS34, s30v, 440C, plus many others.

If you heat treat yourself, find some 1070, 1080, 1084,
1084 FG sold by Aldo Bruno is formulated just for knifemaking.

You can find a list of suppliers here
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=699736

Aldo is highly rated.
http://njsteelbaron.com/


Heat Treating
You can send blades out for heat treating at $10 or $15 per blade for perfect results, and avoid buying the equipment.

This PDF brochure gives a good overview
http://www.buckknives.com/resources/pdf/Paul_Bos_Brochure.pdf

http://www.petersheattreat.com/
http://www.texasknife.com/vcom/about_us.php
http://www.knifemaker.ca/ (Canadian)


Grinder / Tools

Hand Tools
You can do it all by hand with files and abrasive cloth like the Green Pete video.

Photo of a nice bevel filing jig .
http://www.flemingknives.com/imagesPrime/FileStation/KPicB007.jpg

Entry Level Grinders
Many makers start with the Sears Craftsman 2x42 belt grinder.
http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_12605_00921513000P?prdNo=3

Commercial Production 2 x 72” Belt Grinders
http://www.prometheanknives.com/shop-techniques-3/grinders

Mapp arm – Grinder Toolrest
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=466024


DIY 2 x 72” Belt Grinders

KMG Clone
Free Plans
http://www.dfoggknives.com/PDF/GrinderPlans.pdf

NWG No Weld Grinder
http://www.usaknifemaker.com/plans-for-the-no-weld-grinder-sander-nearly-50-pages-p-723.html

EERF Grinder (EERF =“Free” backwards)
Free plans
http://wilmontgrinders.com/EERFGrinder.aspx
http://blindhogg.com/blueprints.html

Buy the kit
http://polarbearforge.com/grinder_kit.html
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In addition to the above advice, especially the part Stacy gave you about tempering and Rick's advice about having fun, here's another really easy immediate improvement:

Find a different handle material. What you've got is probably pine. It's very soft and possibly sappy. Plus when it's done, it will look very plain. Even the cutoff of a broken axe or hammer handle would be better as far as durability. But if you look around, a nice piece of handle material can be found pretty easy.

I got a really nice piece of highly figured walnut off a wall clock I got at a yard sale for a buck.
 
I got a really nice piece of highly figured walnut off a wall clock I got at a yard sale for a buck.

Check out places like GoodWill. They have things like serving trays, jewelry boxes, and other things for a couple dollars that may have wood that would make a nice handle.

LonePine
AKA Paul Meske, Wisconsin
 
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