Reduce weight or bigger pack?

JGON

JGON

Joined
Mar 12, 2010
Messages
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I either need to lighten my load and become more minimalist, or I need to get a bigger pack. I'm looking for a few recommendations, as well as a little info on what you all do.

My outdoor activities are evolving some and I want to know how I should go about modifying my loadout.

I mostly do overnights, but I when I can I stretch it to two and three nights. Living in WI, some of this is cold weather, which means more stuff to bring.

I have a 40 Liter pack, which is more than adequate for the overnight stuff, but for the multi day trips in cold weather it's proving to be a squeeze. I usually bring a 4-season, two person backpacking tent which is my biggest space waster. It's the only tent I have, and I have it because sometimes my special lady friend comes along, and she wouldn't come with unless she was comfortable...

Here are my questions...

  • What do you minimalists do to shave weight, even in cold weather?
  • What volume pack is adequate for you depending on the seasons/duration?
  • What other recommendations can you suggest?

I just bought the honey stove to replace my jet boil which means less bulk, no worries on fuel, less weight, etc. When I can, I will procure my own water and reduce carried water. I am considering more shelter building, although I like the comfort a tent provides. I might try my hand at practicing some good natural/tarp shelters that reflect the heat of the fire...

What else?

Thanks,

JGON
 
I'd normally say reduce the weight but a 40L pack is pretty small for winter camping so in this case I'd say you need more room.
 
The term 'minimalist' can have a lot definitions depending on who you talk to. Sometimes I like to go out for 2 nights with a knife and a bag of trail mix. Others i bring a 70 liter pack, two sleeping pads a bottle of bourbon.

When I go winter camping but still want to go light I use my 60 liter Osprey pack, but.... if you have a synthetic sleeping bag I would spend money on a new down bag as opposed to a new pack.

As for tents, the Black Diamond Betamid or Megamid is sick. Its real versatile, but you do need trekking/ski poles to set it up as it does not come with poles of its own. I like it because you can use it as a 'roof' for a simple snow shelter. Its halfway between a tent and a tarp. Cheap as well, I think 100 bucks.

Have fun out there!
 
The biggest change in my gear for winter camping is my sleeping bag. My winter bag gets strapped to the bottom of the same pack I use year round. This leaves room for any insulating layers or other stuff for cold weather.
 
Right now I have a nice Marmot Pinnacle 15 degree bag. I love that bag. It's been adequate for most of my trips so far, and if I need I just leave some of my layers on when I sleep, but I've never done anything in the bitter cold... yet.
 
You seem to already know what to do :o Ditch the tent, shave bulk from any gear you can, ditch anything unnecessary or redundant.

You could also look in to carrying more items on your person. Water bottle / canteen on your belt, for example. Cordage, first aid, tools, and whatever else in your cargo pockets... that sort of thing. The only stuff I ever have in my pack is my sleep system, clothing, tarp, and food. Everything else is on my person. It makes packing my bag pretty easy.

A 40 litre pack is my personal upper limit on pack size. Anything larger than that means I am carrying more gear than I need (or my girlfriends gear; she has a bad knee). For solo trips though I use a 35 litre bag year round. A week ago I camped in -18c with that bag and it did well. So I think you should be fine with your current pack, unless you absolutely can't trade the tent for a tarp or something.

A poncho is a good way to save space. It's a raincoat, a pack cover, and a tarp / ground sheet all in one. If you get one, make sure it has grommets.

You could also look in to getting more compressible clothing / sleeping bag if you haven't already. Down-filled stuff is great for this.
 
Consider a pack with the ability to add or remove large pouches on the outside to customize your needs or the season.
 
I'm using a 45L pack at the moment. It's fine for 4 day trips.

The majority of my bulky gear is my down quilts/ down sleepingbag. This is the most important gear for me. Even with 900FP down, it still takes up a bit of room. The rest of the gear, silnylon tarp, thermals, fleece, billycan FAK etc takes up very little room.

The best gear choice I ever made was having a pack made up with two large pockets on the outside to fit 2.5L platypuses. 5 litres of water inside the pack takes up so much space.

I'd much rather be carrying weight in essentials like extra food and water than things I don't need. An extra 1kg of superfluous gear is another days food I could be carrying.
 
Both? Kifaru is opening up an Ultralight line of packs that will cover some pretty huge loadouts. They use the same suspension set up as their other packs, and they have a new UL frame in them.

God bless,
Adam
 
might have to see your whole list but if you can fasten the tent to the exterior maybe that'd do it
 
What is your current pack? Don't know how to post a link from my phone, but if you search me for threads started, there's one in the gadgets n gear forum about the Mystery Ranch Dragonslayer. Pics in there of a Bluewater rope bag attached with the pack's compression straps. If last minute vacation time got approved, and I can avoid an audit being done at work(lotta "ifs":() my sleeping pad, bivy, hardshell top and bottom, and a small tarp will be in there for 2-3 days later this week. The bag is 1000D Cordura, 7 oz, and $12.93 at REI outlet. Struck me as a convenient way to add capacity and versatility to the pack. Seems very durable so far-it's also been used to haul books, clothes, other gear, plus over a dozen times as a rope guard on the edge of cliffs when toproping, and doesn't have a mark on it. I like it:)

edit: here's the bag on the pack, and with all the stuff for an overnighter in it packed inside the pack body.
imgp0992a.jpg

imgp1310.jpg

imgp1311e.jpg

and here's a link to it, if it catches your interest:
http://www.rei.com/product/807565
 
Last edited:
cmurphy said:
The term 'minimalist' can have a lot definitions depending on who you talk to.
Click to expand...

Minimalist depend on your level of exerience and the weather conditions.
I loved going with a poncho, sleeping bag, and a mat for two night jaunts.
But if you do not know how to do that, then you endanger yourself.
When you want to play with new 'minimalist' gear, go for an overnighter and experiment, so you will know how to use the gear for a longer trip.

If you want your Lady to be comfortable and keep comeing out, then minimalist is not the way to go.
I used to go showshoe camping with a lady in the Green Mountains in Vermont. She was tough to be out there in -20, but I had to make sure she was comfortable with extra gear.


Instead of asking what size pack you need, do it the other way round.
Lay out your gear that is comfortable to you and know how to use, the gear you must carry (including your food bag).
This will define what size pack you need.
 
For 3 season use and outings spanning 1-2 night i use a 34 liter pack. I find that it shouldnt be smaller than this.

For winter (snowy) conditions ive got a 70 liter pack. I could probably do with a smaller one, but this is what i got. The good thing about such a pack, is that you dont have to strap anything to the outside of the pack, thus avoiding a unstable pack or having your gear exposed to the elements. Plus winter gear is usually bulkier than summer gear.

Giving suggestions on how to save weight/space is difficult when we cant see your pack list. There are the 3 heavies where you can save alot of weight. Your pack, tent and sleeping bag. Other than that there is a couple of small things you could do:

  • You can carry water disinfectant pills instead of a bulky filter.
  • Getting a proper winter bag will eliminate the need for a fleece liner.
  • Learn how to estimate the correct amount of food and fuel.
  • Try to carry stuff that has a double function. For example your fleece can double as a pillow at night.
 
post your entire gear list and we'll see if we can help :) also temps expected

I have to agree 40 liters is on the small side for "winter", more clothing (and bulkier clothing), bigger kitchen (need a larger pot to melt snow), higher volume pad and sleeping bag, the list goes on

I'm pretty sure I could get a 2-3 (maybe 4) days out of a 40 liter pack in the winter, beyond that I'd have to go bigger (and I pack pretty darn light :))
 
Good tent and sleeping bag is a must in a winter and it takes most space.

There is also direct link between price and size/weight. So cutting there cost a lot!
You can shave the food(buying more hightech food) and kitchen stuff but it will be less convenient. water tablets instead of cooking,
Of course limit clothing, for 4 days you can wore same stuff all the time :D

And, this is where you can save a lot of weight, depending on personal habbits and conditions - throw away excessive knives flashlights, emergency survival boxes, fully filled first aid kits, multitools, and so on and so on.

But for winter I would use bigger backpack.
 
Here is my gear list for the most part.
  • Osprey 40 Liter Pack
  • 4-Season Tent
  • Marmot Pinnacle 15 degree bag
  • Jetboil
  • 100 oz. water bladder
  • Titanium Camping Silverware
  • Snow Peak Titanium Cup
  • Therma-Rest Sleeping Pad (Considering an Upgrade to an inflatable)
  • Black Diamond BackPacking Lantern
  • GB Wildlife Hatchet
  • Bark River STS-3
  • Victorinox Swisstool
  • Silky Saw
  • Adventure First Aid Kit
  • 550 Paracord
  • Ferro Rod
  • Fatwood
  • Toilet Paper
  • Steri-Pen water purification
  • Extra Mid Layer Fleece, Merino Wool Socks
  • Snowshoes
  • Digital Camera
  • Gaiters

I think I might be missing something, but that's what I can think of to list right now.

I need to upgrade my pad. I also need some additional layers for the real cold stuff. I mentioned already that I have a Honey Stove (Metal Collapsible Wood Stove) on order that will replace my Jetboil and save weight and volume. As someone already mentioned, I need a larger pot for melting snow, as my Snow Peak cup will not be an adequate size for this. Also, I am reading Bushcraft by Mors Kochanski, and the two items he mentions as essentials are an axe or hatchet and a pot. I wouldn't have thought.

I think my 15 degree Marmot bag is adequate, but what temps would you guys who are more experienced than me be comfortable using that bag in?

I see my tent as the biggest opportunity. Right now when we have wind chill advisories approaching -20 degrees F would not be the best time to experiment with tarp set ups, but come spring I'd love to try. They seem infinitely versatile. I use a tarp/hammock set up in the summer, but I've never used any other set up and the tarp hammock deal wouldn't be adequate for winter.

I've done overnights in the low 30's high 20's, but right now it's dipping below 10 degrees F at night with some nasty wind chills. I also do this...

DSC00044.jpg


But that is never more than a few hours at a time and I'm constantly moving, so I'm usually quite warm. Once I get settled in at night in the winter I'll really learn fast if I'm prepared well enough or if I'm missing something. I'm not just wondering about winter camping though. I'm hoping to reduce weight for all seasons and all temps.
Thanks again for all the help!

JGON
 
I have a 40 liter pack too and although I don't winter camp I've come to conclusions that may help. For me 40 liters is just on the verge of being too small. The problem is the tent and the sleeping bag I have take up 75% of the space. So, either I switch to a bigger pack or get a tent and bag that occupy less volume in the pack. If, like you said, you're going to stick with your tent for your girlfriend, get a bigger pack.
 
Marmot has accurate temp ratings IMO (I own three of their bags) so w/ a adequate pad you should be fine to 15, w/ some mid layers, dry socks and even an insulated jacket you can probably push that another 10 degrees- this is dependent on if your a warm, cold or normal sleeper.

Not sure what pad you have, but you want a total R value of about 5 for temps into the teens- you can simply add another pad to your existing pad as a possible option. In winter a down filled inflatable pad is a pretty popular way to go as well. Pad choice is critical for comfortable sleeping in the winter!

You'll need ~ 2 liter pot (some go even a little bigger) for melting snow. Also be aware that wood stoves aren't the most efficient stoves for melting snow- they'll work, but you'll need a little patience

tarps aren't the best choice for winter (not talking SE or SW winters- talking good old fashion cold/snowy winters :))

pyramid tents make great 4 season tents (shed snow and wind very well)- mine (MLD Duomid) weighs a grand total of 1.5 lbs w/ guy lines/stakes and has plenty of room for two- doesn't take up much room either and the best part is I add an inner tent (tub floor w/ netting) and it's a great 3 season tent to boot!

depending on which pack you have, the hatchet/saw can likely be lashed to the outside

your 100 oz bladder is not likely to work well in winter conditions (they do make insulated versions which work better), you'll want a couple of wide mouth nalgenes- less prone to freezing (store them upside down- some use a thin cozy around them as well)

your missing a few crucial items on your list- you need a good insulating top; a balaclava (this in addition to normal hat/beanie); glove/mitt system; a pair of down booties for camp wear (and/or sleeping) will be very welcome- get the kind that include or have the option for a waterproof outer

a small snow shovel is very handy for help setting up your camp- this can likely be lashed to the outside as well

don't forget the volume of food you'll need as well

best thing to do is get all your kit (include assembly likely food) and see what it looks like in the pack
 
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