Regulating Instructorship

J

John J

Joined
Nov 18, 1999
Messages
74
Hello All:

I posted this topic about 2 years ago on another forum and received only 1 unfavorable response. I believe it is a legitimate topic that is not discussed simply because it may offend a vast majority of the FMA Community. Who cares?

This topic is pretty self-explanatory. I am absolutely against the issuance of “Instructor Ranking” based on seminars, condensed training and the ever popular but rather ridiculous video certification. Although this approach reaps financial rewards, the downfall is much more significant. Discretion should be used when evaluating an individual’s candidacy for instructorship especially in a weapon-based system. Too often, it becomes a selfish approach to marketing the system for money and exposure. This lack of integrity has it's consequences; liability, unqualified instructors, misrepresentation of art and homemade systems to name a few. It is for this reason that organizations are established within a system...to institute standards for its preservation.

I’ve already heard the, “some people progress quicker” or “it’s up to the Master” comments. However, those reasons are far from credible.

I'm not interested in a debate just comments.

Yours in the Arts,

John G. Jacobo
BAKBAKAN International
 
John, I would tend to agree for the most part. Regulation of Instructorship would be a good thing if it were practical. I don't see how that would ever happen. For one, who would function as the regulating body? Each style seems to have it own form of issuing rank and it would be impossible to have one set of guidelines.

Martial Arts is just that. It's an art. Too tough to regulate. One can only go on experiance when learning from an "instructor" As a student you have to be able to tell what is going to work for you. Beginners always have a tough time with this because they don't have the understanding to be able to tell the differences between who is a good teacher and who is not. Research is the only way that we can tell if an instructor is fit to teach. That's why I find discussion boards like this one so valuable. We all can learn through our collective experiance.

While I do feel that seminar, video tape and the like are valuable to learning, I would find it hard to believe that one could learn an entire system throuh these methods alone.

S.
 
Let me clarify a bit. I am not interested in initiating such a move but rather to make a point. I agree that it would be impossible and impractical.

My purpose is to inform the FMA enthusiasts of this issue. There are a significant amount of so-called instructors (and self-proclaimed ones too). I can't understand why the Head of a system would make such rash decisions for money and fame especially after he/she most likely dedicated years of training, shedding blood, sweat & tears to attain their rank. Maybe there only means of income? Regardless,
I still disagree with selling rank.

Quantity should never substitute Quality.

Yours in the Arts,

John G. Jacobo
BAKBAKAN International
www.bakbakan.com
 
peace... how's it going john, it's style from virginia... i agree w/ you- i personally feel rank(of any kind) is useless w/o earned skill. the only thing i have for a "certificate" is what i hold inside, i have no paperwork what so ever. yet, i teach... i teach the forgotten aspects,but i teach for our tradition and our culture, no more no less. the only "rank" or "certificate" that should mean something are the appreciative nods and smiles of old pilipino manongs who probably wish they could join in...
-style
 
Many fine points addressed on this thread. I certainly agree in not issuing instructorship merely by those criteria in which the thread was started. In Sayoc Kali there has been a misrepresentation or misunderstanding by many seeking instructorship merely by video, seminars, hours etc... first, gaining Associate level instructorship is much easier to come by than gaining Full Instructorship. The only guro ever rewarded full Instructor ranking since these critterias were established spent eight years under Tuhon Sayoc and trained full time with him for most of this time. Even Associate levels are very difficult to attain and gets tougher as the levels progress.

You *qualify* to test for a higher level after you meet the guidelines and you *must* retest every year to keep your rank. Testing isn't just about how many seminars etc. but the progression of skill and the character of the person- how they have taught others and the quality of students they produce. The full instructors get together and evaluate the individual candidate as they will reflect on them in the long run. Most who are attracted to Sayoc Kali already have years of blade, stick or empty hand experience. Many are certified in other systems already so the majority of our new students are advanced or novice level students from other systems right off the bat.

Sayoc Kali have three levels of Associates Instructorship and below these an Apprentice candidate and a Kapatid level. What this means is that character , skill and dedication are surveyed before the next level is achieved. The Kapatid- the lowest ranking is based on the recommendation of the levels above them. One cannot just gain any level due to time or money spent and the candidates are made aware of this.
Those below full instructors, such as the Associate levels can spend many many years under the scrutiny of Tuhon Sayoc remaining in their rank. They know retaining rank is just as important as moving up in rank as ranks can be taken away for legitmate reasons. Those who merely there to collect rank can easily be spotted and weeded out because by the time FULL instructor Guro Isa is gained, there is no question of the candidate breaking off and creating their own system. No Sayoc Kali full instructor has ever done so. Any Associate levels can be stripped of rank for doing so.

I know I went off on a tangent here and delved into specifics of Sayoc Kali, and I understand that this was not the intention or focus of the first post. However, the point I'm making is that although Sayoc Kali posts hours, private training and video training availability- anyone seeking to get a quick full instructor ranking in Sayoc Kali would be in for a rude surprise if they think they can get it the easy way. The tapes etc. are just part of the learning methods but a small fraction of it.

Maybe others have given away rank with wild abandon through the tape/seminar methods but not all systems do that. It is merely a support system.

I think the best way to find out if it is easy to do it this way is to ask any instructor in that system or check out their skill level at a seminar or class.

Respectfully,
--Rafael--
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I agree with all that's been said. In a nutshell, it's a good idea but in reality it is hard if not impossible to make it happen. It seems that each style has to police their own group. But you will always have someone splitting off and forming their own style. That's not controlable.

One thing I do like about the Filllipino arts - there are not belt ranks like in many other "americanized" arts. Traditionally, there were no belts in martial arts. Ranking of this sort is reletively new - maybe the past 50 to 100 years.

However, any student who has several years experience has a lot to offer a beginner in the way of instruction. One of the main features of the Fillipino arts is that they are quick to learn - at least the stick work. The problem comes when this person with a few years of experience tries to claim that they are an expert. They may be good with a stick and maybe even a knife - but there is a lot more to the full range of the arts. This person would be adding to the dilema that I see in the TKD schools - instructors that have not yet mastered the art teaching a watered-down version to the next generation. After several generations you end up with garbage.
 
hi john
i lost the post so i will do it again.
the philippine martial arts teacher has to be the "phony" police in his own town. this is how its done for years back home, and the manong we have in america have forgotten about this tradition.

when the new or young teacher comes to a new town, he should pay some respect to any organizations he can find. i do it in every town i come to, and when i was younger i use to ask the instructor if he would like to see me play with one of his top boys. i sent a letter to the teacher first, then i bring a gift like some food or something. the instructor is suppose to make a big thing out of your visit, and if you are young like his students you can ask to give him a demonstration or he should invite you to play with one of his students (if you are a teacher and he is old also). one way they do this is the old man will have his boys put on the gear and spar, then somebody should invite you to join them if you are young enough. when you leave, and you never hear from the teacher again, that means, he doesnt think very much of you. but if he invite you again to dinner or a ceremony or something, they have respect for you.

sometimes they can look at your arms and how you act to size you up. my grandfather will look at the right arm of the visitor, and feel his strength when he shakes his hand. this will tell you a lot about if this teacher at least trains hard. his manners will also say a lot about you. if you get nervous when his boys cross sticks, then you will get talked about when you leave. but if you ask to join in, then even if you dont do so good, there is going to be some respect that you are a fighter ( they will really like you because they will just think there technique is superior to yours :) ). but this tradition that someone wants to see how good you are is what keeps the weak teachers away. when i have a party or get together, no matter what it is unless there is a small place where we cant spar, my boys spar for the entertainment, or we will watch a video of our matches from the past. whats funny is that when i came to california 3 years ago, i got so many visitors even out of town people, because i am the only philippine martial art school in the yellow pages back then. well, today only three people ever call me now and i only spared with one of them!

but the tradition of having matches with people you meet will tell you right away if this guy knows what he is talking about, or if maybe you prejudiced him unfairly. it gets right to the point. you know, if you are instant "guro", its hard to talk your bullshit when i have beginners behind you whacking each other up with sticks, and laughing!
 
sorry i read your post again and maybe i went off the subject.

well its hard to regulate a requirement for instructorship because everyone has different ones. but if a person is calling himself "expert" then he should not mind to prove his point. teachers should take every opportunity to participate in a match, but you know, most schools dont make the student spar, or they do it with a padded stick or padded body, so they become teachers afraid of a couple bruises. on topica.com one pilipino teacher, abundio baet, suggests that the modern arnis teachers have a match to end the arguing who is the "top dog". i said this last year on this form, and look how much flame i took for saying it. and you should see the excuses people make. its illegal, its dangerous, i have nothing to prove, i train for self defense not sport, i train for self defense not fighting, etc. you know i hate to say it but you have to blame the teacher for there attitude to the ancient tradition of the philippine art. nobody in those seminar spars with contact, so of course the teachers arent going to do it. but if you call it a "filipino" art, then keep the "filipino" custom and practices.

of course, we can just keep ourselve from being diplomatic. if a guy asks you what do you think of this style, that teacher, or this kind of teaching. then if you think its garbage then say its garbage! dont be afriad to hurt somebody feelings, because then the ppoint will either going to be argue or proven. and here is your opportunity to back up what you said. this is the culture that makes men like manong leo, tatang illustrisimo, manong mena, manong lema, and the others (like me!). the culture we have now is a weak one, like a children's class with nothing but sinawali and independant practice and no matches. i know in my city i keep people in there toes.

john, you taking new york? :D


ps
what changes do you want to see. i only really worry about my school, and of course what people thing of the philippine martial arts. but for people already studying the art, i kind of leave them alone, becuase they believe the drill is going to save there life. its hard to tell a teacher what to do, and for some of my friends who teach arnis, i talk to them and make suggestions, but they think the philippine martial arts have to be "beginner frienldy". so they soften the art, and it stays soft all the way to the expert level.
 
Thanks for the input guys. I’m glad to see I’m not the only who shares this view. We need not bastardize the art!

Here's something to think about. At Bakbakan, an individual is "graded" first in EACH weapon category. You must attain all 9 levels in each until you can test for "Trainer / 1st Level Instructor". This allows us to evaluate one’s proficiency in a specific weapon while gaining confidence in his knowledge of the System as a whole.

I will try not to go off tangent too much but…a common fallacy is that “stick movements were drawn from the sword”. Unfortunately, this is not necessarily the case in many systems of Arnis, Kali & Eskrima taught today. Many were developed from the use of blunted weaponry only. Sword techniques have distinct characteristics which if done incorrectly can either negate it’s effectiveness or render it useless. (I’ve mentioned this in previous threads). So what’s my point? Simple. It goes back to using discretion when issuing rank. Just because someone is good with the stick does not mean he understands the method of the blade. A prominent example is the guy who “jabs” with a knife. This is an ineffective way of using the knife unless you turn your palm up at the last second bringing the point of the knife against the opponent (an inverted thrust), have a double-edged knife with significant length or make contact with the opponents face.

Train each weapon with precision.

John

P.S.

-Maurice, I look forward to your comments regarding my next topic...Drills.

-Hey Style! How's VA? Drop me a line.
 
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