Relatively new to sharpening newer steels and need some recommendations.

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Apr 4, 2018
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I have a DMT 8" Duosharp Plus stone with the stone holder. For some reason I got the stone with course on one side and fine on the other (probably trying to save money). I do not have the extra fine stone. I do not have the DMT sharpening guide. I have a Manix 2 with CPM-S30V steel and I have had nothing but problems sharpening this knife. In the past with lesser steels I had no problems sharpening my knifes freehand on stones. With the Manix 2 I never seem to get it really sharp and it does not stay sharp for long. If I get the fine stone and sharpening guide do you think it will make a big difference? Is there a better knife guide to use with Duosharp Plus stones?

Recently I bought a knife with CPM-20SV blade and another with M390 so I would like to sort this out.

Thank you for any help!
 
With the Manix 2 I never seem to get it really sharp and it does not stay sharp for long.
Hi,
What is really sharp? How sharp can you get other knives?

When sharpening is the blade burring easily? After sharpening is it rolling easily?

If you're removing the burr completely (double angle deburr ),
sounds like your knife has classic factory power sharpening burnt edge/overheated edge.

It gets better with more sharpening as you remove more of the burnt/weakened metal.

If I get the fine stone and sharpening guide do you think it will make a big difference? Is there a better knife guide to use with Duosharp Plus stones?
If as suspected edge is burnt, higher grits or a guide wont change that.

Sure guides help you remain consistent with your angle, but they're easy to make.
How about a simple ramp/wedge made from "cardboard", like a horizontal sharpmaker?

PdPKd4X.jpg

To maintain angle throughout the tip all you have to do is pivot the blade throughout the curved parts like this
Im2fC0G.gif
 
The vast majority of the time, difficulties in making an edge sufficiently sharp in the first place are due to any one, or a combination of, three possible issues:

  • The existing edge angle is relatively wide/obtuse - this is usually the primary problem.
  • Inconsistent angle control, resulting in a rounded edge.
  • Stopping short of a full apex, as would be indicated by forming and 'flipping' a full-length burr along the edge. If a burr is never formed or verified, chances are the edge isn't fully apexed.

If one has experience and good success in sharpening other knives (implying angle control is good enough and diligence is taken to form & verify a burr), but then has difficulty with only a few others, I almost ALWAYS suspect most of the issues are due to an overly thick (obtuse) edge. With my own knives, thinning them out at the edge will fix about 99% of problems like this. Even cheap knives respond much better when adequately thinned to edge angles at/below 30° inclusive (15° per side). Any wider than that, the apex will need to be almost perfectly crisp for it to cut well. If it isn't, the wider geometry behind it will really impede cutting performance.

S30V, in particular, has a reputation for giving up it's hair-popping edge relatively quickly, leaving a coarser 'utility sharp' edge behind that's more durable, but won't do really fine shaving-type cutting as well. Doesn't always behave this way, but people notice it more often with this steel. So how do you work around that? By thinning the geometry behind it, which reduces the urgency to keep the apex so perfectly crisp. At narrower edge angles, there's less of a premium on the apex itself, because the steel behind it will still be thin enough to permit decent cutting performance after the apex dulls a little bit. You'll notice this thinning benefit more in sharpness-testing by cutting paper, for example, which will remain more effortless at edge angles at/below 30° inclusive. And if you take it down to maybe ~25° inclusive or so, you'll even begin to see shaving sharpness remain a good while longer as well. Point being, the narrower angle at the edge will increasingly render a little dulling at the apex less important, as that edge angle is reduced.

There's some small possibility that some steel near the edge is heat-damaged, as mentioned earlier. The usual 'fix' for that is to grind that weakened steel off the apex; and that's most quickly done by lightly drawing the apex across the stone, as if attempting to slice the stone in half, before starting the regrinding of the edge bevels.
 
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Most knives when new need to be thinned out and reprofiled.I do that on beltsander and find that easiest way to do it.After that sharpen it on coarse stone untill i get burr.Then take fine stone and polish it out little and take burr off.If you dont have sander use coarse sil carbide or diamond stone or diamond file.Belt sanders are cheap and are way to go if you dont like grinding too much.Results are awesome after some practice on cheap knives.
 
Thanks for all the replies. A lot of great information here. When I say I'm unable to get it sharp I mean it will not cut paper easily. Compared to my new knifes it feels like a butter knife :)

I'm removing the burr completely. It sounds like I have a factory burnt edge/overheated edge and/or existing edge angle is relatively wide/obtuse. With the stone that I have is there any way to get 30° inclusive (or even ~25° inclusive) easily? Do I need to get a courser stone or grinder?
 
Thanks for all the replies. A lot of great information here. When I say I'm unable to get it sharp I mean it will not cut paper easily. Compared to my new knifes it feels like a butter knife :)

I'm removing the burr completely. It sounds like I have a factory burnt edge/overheated edge and/or existing edge angle is relatively wide/obtuse. With the stone that I have is there any way to get 30° inclusive (or even ~25° inclusive) easily? Do I need to get a courser stone or grinder?

It's doable with the 8" C/F Duo-Sharp you have; I have the same hone and it's pretty versatile. Ideally, an XC would make it go quicker, but the Coarse can get it done in reasonable time with it's 8" length. If you don't want to do it all at once, it could be done in increments with each regular resharpening of the blade, taking it lower each time over a couple or three (or four) sessions. That's how I often approach it, with blades that start out relatively thick at the edge. A little at a time will reduce the chances of fatigue and the errors and sloppiness that come with it.
 
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Thanks for all the replies. A lot of great information here. When I say I'm unable to get it sharp I mean it will not cut paper easily. Compared to my new knifes it feels like a butter knife :)

I'm removing the burr completely. It sounds like I have a factory burnt edge/overheated edge and/or existing edge angle is relatively wide/obtuse. With the stone that I have is there any way to get 30° inclusive (or even ~25° inclusive) easily? Do I need to get a courser stone or grinder?

Hi,
Yeah, if you can't slice paper easily, sharpening wasn't completed,
using a magick/permanent marker can help you see where you're grinding (shoulder/edge/apex)
If grinding one side on a coarse diamond stone for 300 strokes / 5 minutes doesn't reach the apex (ex raise a burr on opposite side, slices paper),
then as Obsessed with Edges says, your sharpening angle is too low and you're changing angles not merely sharpening

Dropping angles doesn't have to take long, just make it part of your sharpening, drop angle little by little , use an angle guide and scrubbing strokes for speed if thats comfortable/precise enough for you

Your DMT C is coarser than this vertical sharpmaker sharpening Efficient grinding reprofiling with sharpmaker 1-3 minutes * 10 steps = 10-30 minutes total to drop angle from 20 degrees per side to 15 degrees in half degree steps , Reprofiling/Sharpening CPM 3V? - Page 2 - Spyderco Forums
 
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