"Reliability" of folder locking mechanisms, a not so simple thread.

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elbowtko

Joined
Sep 24, 2006
Messages
42
Hello,

This is to start a discussion on your opinion of which is the most reliable folder locking mechanism and why.

To clarify, my meaning of reliability includes certain aspects such as:

Longevity, how long can we see this folder design last throughout the decades without too much repair?

Resistance, how well does it respond to some exposure to harsh conditions such as the wet, salty, and cold?

Elements, how well does the lock hold up or how easily is it cleaned immediately after being exposed to dirt, mud, and lint to function.

Inspection, how well can we see the lock become reliably engaged as opposed to just "believing" it is. Can we see or feel a failure easily believing it still works and have it fail on us?

Strength, is there any blade play easily after hard use? (has more to do with pivot than locking mech but it can come to play), will the lock stay in place even after much abuse? How much static as well as dynamic weight can it take? (remember strength is but one aspect of reliability)

Trust, (This is a weird one I know) What aspects of the knife inspires confidence that it won't fold over your fingers? Aspects can include a flipper or choil or a framelock that allows your hand to assist in the locking.

Usability before or after failure? How well does the knife deploy? Is the lock so strong and tough that it impedes ease of use or performance? Is the knife usable even with a failure, will you still be able to adequately use the knife to complete the job? If a failure does happen are there features that prevent the knife from coming down towards your hands? How easy can one repair it?

Here are a few opinions that I have come across as well as some questions, there is no right answer and every lock has compromises:

Triad lock: Strongest (Arguably), but how well does it hold up to the elements? Some lockbacks are known to easy failure with dirt and mud around regardless of how much it can baton. Can you see how well the locking mechanism is working after wear and tear? What happens to the knife if there is a failure?

Axis: Very Strong but not the strongest, however you can see the action quite easy, and have seen videos of this work quite well in dirt and mud because of the way the lock just pushes things out of the way. However long term exposure to water could mean death to the omega springs which seem not to hold up long term in SOME cases. You also have to send this sucker back to get an omega spring. I have also seen some people wedge a piece of wood to lock it in place to keep it going until they get it fixed.

Framelocks: Strength is moderate. Not many parts to go wrong, however wear and tear over time could have its effects on the lockbar. When gripped well can help to engage the lockbar which inspires confidence. Combine this with flipper or choil design such as RTs and that is a lot of trust it won't slice your hand. Looks also to be easier to clean. Again less parts but tighter tolerances for it to work, and can have wear over time.

Liner Locks: :barf: :D, truthfully I haven't heard too much about liner locks.

I gathered most of this information from reading threads and have done my fair share of research, now I'm wondering about your opinion.

Maybe STR can chime in, I would really like to hear yours.
 
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Well there is to much of "could" and "can" in this and to much thoughts "heards
" than true experience.

I have broken a lock back and that´s about it. It is irriversible damaged. I have saved a thread of someone who has made omega springs himself, so can i, if needed.

But, as in my beginning: No if and can, think and heard.

Use them or abuse them, expose them to whatever you dare to and than lets talk about realistic tests and how the knives and locks behave.

Btw: After destroying the lockback a started to think twice about "hard use tests" :-)
 
STR has his view here: www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/494549-Did-you-know-STR-s-Tips-and-Tricks-for-knife-care

With exception on usability after failure, triad probably is the winner. If failure is defined as part of the structure (frame, lockface, blade tang) broken.
If failure is not equal to breakage, in that thread, liner/frame lock that failed and bent towards the opposite handle wins this criteria (usability after failure)

One more important factor is how easily the lock slip under sudden impact. I guess triad still wins here.
 
I vote for the Umnumzaan with its ceramic ball tang interface. An integral lock with superhard interface has the least parts and highest wear resistance.

I'll wager that no one is going to wear out an Umnumzaan lock in their lifetime.
 
I think this whole idea of "reliability"/strength of folders (or steels or tangs or rings/blade holes and a few other things) can get way over thought.

Now regarding folders I personally have used and abused only lock backs, a few liner locks and whatever the lock is on the Gerber fast draw (says of Butch Vallotton creation). Knives made by either Buck, Columbia River, Gerber, Winchester or no name crap. I have never had any of these knives locks fail, break or wear so much that I was worried about it nor have I felt unsafe using any of the knives I own down to the junkiest of them of them.

This being said there is one knife set I was gifted and DON'T USE as they are horribly made griptillian knockoffs with no label (of Chinese make) these were meant to be liner locks but you can fully open the knife have the liner engage then close the knife without dis-engaging the lock.
On the opposite of this is probably the best liner lock I own which is on (surprise!!Gasp!!) a $13 "Mastercraft Utility & Folding Knife" (Now not saying its the best just best liner lock I own)
0575226_1

when I open the folding blade on this the liner snaps over to lock with an audible click and does not budge till I move it.

I want to try out some other names/brands/locks/knives but not allot can be had locally so I have to save my pennies and unfortunately buy things I have never held. So I guess some "over thinking" can be a good thing when I can read about it here:).

At the end of the day you use what you want and everything else be damned.
 
i think the reliability of folding locker mechanisms has come a long long way. a well made liner lock can offer just as much as a frame lock. its not just a matter of which lock is the top, any locking mechanism can be made to withstand all the criteria you mentioned and beyond. if you have six different locks and all six will give you years and years of solid service..its not easy to call one better then the other.
 
marcinek said:
Fixed blade.


:D
Click to expand...

I'm suprised no one's said smachete yet.... :D


My fav's are well designed liner locks a la spydie military or a nice ti framelock. Use them right and you'll be fine. Demko's triad lock is probably the strongest but it's too bad other knife companies are unable to use it other than C.S...
 
elbowtko said:
Some lockbacks are known to easy failure with dirt and mud around regardless of how much it can baton.
Click to expand...

You can baton with any folder. Even slipjoints and friction folders. It's just technique. So batonning really isn't a particularly good criterion for lock strength.
 
As long as blade play is minimal, I don't care how durable the lock really is. If you're using the folder hard enough to break the lock, get a fixed blade.
 
Any of these locks can be done well or poorly. Engineering, materials, quality control and design trump lock genre. Personally, I like a well-done axis lock best.
 
it's mechanical! It will fail!!!

If there isn't a lock good enough, just buy a fixed blade!
 
I would add "usability" to your list. You have "usability after failure," but not plain old usability.

Usability is the one if the primary reasons that liner locks are my favorite.
 
Surprised no one has brought up the "peasant knife" family, specifically the Svord knives.

Your hand is the lock.

 
The Government said:
I would add "usability" to your list. You have "usability after failure," but not plain old usability.

Usability is the one if the primary reasons that liner locks are my favorite.
Click to expand...
Thanks, i'll edit that in.

To the others that are recommending a fixed blade, I understand that a fixed blade is obviously more reliable, however this discussion is about the reliability of these folding mechanisms. It is a moving part and yes it will fail and because of that, the way it is built will have an impact on performance and that is the point of the discussion. Locking mechanisms can be compared and discussed in relation to its reliability, otherwise we all would be using the simplist and cheapest lock on the market.
 
which is the most reliable folder locking mechanism and why.
Click to expand...

The one yielded by the hand controlled by some common sense I would say. I like a lot of locks the Triad lock included. In the normal uses most any of the locks you mentioned and more work quite well. I like frame locks for a number of reasons. Few parts to break is one but slim in the pocket, and they seem to fair better in muck and even with some up and down play it seems most get by. If it leads to some light click if you play with it they seem to stay there for a long time in most cases and even with a bit of up and down movement you can still do a whole lot with a frame lock reliably. I have a lot of frame locks. I use them a lot and feel that while certainly not the strongest lock we have access to it is arguably strong enough within the limits of what we should probably be doing with a folding anything. While debated hotly since the advent of the Triad lock which I'd suggest for anyone interested in extremes of performance due to the simple fact that the Demko Triad did raise the bar for the limits of what a folder can be made to do I still think that the frame lock is perhaps a better gauge to judge the limits of a folder. Once you cross that line of defeat of normal everyday locks you venture off into territory probably better served by the better, if not the more 'proper' tool, ie., a fixed blade! While I love the Triad lock and in fact carry one very often I think really that they are much more capable than I am even interested in trying to reach with a folder. The amount of force necessary to destroy one of them when they engage properly would be sufficient to equal unstoppable force should it defeat. Scary really so you have to hope all the parts are just right with no stress risers and no gunk or build up of crap in the mechanism responsible for keeping your hand and fingers safe.

For what it is worth since the advent of the Para Military 2 I find that knife my companion quite a bit and while its developed a bit of play I don't see it as a problem and it certainly didn't keep me from using it for cutting up and skillet frying a rabbit the cat killed in my back yard last night! No use letting a good wabbit go to waste you know! ;):thumbup:

STR
 
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