remaking ie copying a knife

M

mes228

Joined
Feb 9, 2004
Messages
47
OK, seems obvious very few people on earth have heard of "James Porter" a deceased Master Smith. I have one of his integral knives that I believe to be
the most "perfect" in every respect of all the knives I've seen. I am either going to start knife making (actually I forged 3 knives, years ago) or hire someone to re-make this knife. Or better still make several copies of this knife. It would be a horrible loss to history if this knife just vanished because the maker died. I believe the knife was made from "round" bar stock of tool steel with a drop point "Persian" type blade, flat ground and tapered from hilt to tip and from hilt to butt. The butt being an oval with the ivory micarta scales inset into the tang. I feel Fisk or Moran could re-make it - but I can afford neither. Can someone reccomend a really good forged Blade Smith
that makes "Persian" type blades at a "reasonable" cost??? Looking frward to your suggestions. Best regards and have a great day.
 
I'm not a knife maker, but I'm sure it would be helpful if you could post some pics of your knife. I know I sure would like to see it. If you like you can email any picture you might have and I'll be glad to post them for you.
 
There are probably dozens of bladesmiths that could do this for you, but I don't know of any that like to make direct copies of someone elses work. If you are looking for aknife that uses the Porter knife as a general outline, you will have more luck finding someone to do this for you. If you want exact copies then you are going to have a hard time finding a smith that will be interested in taking on your project.
 
I can't post a picture as the knife is at Kenny Rowes in Arkansas having a sheath made. I also am so computer illiterate I don't know how to post a picture. By the way Kenny - who has seen most every knife made by Master Smiths, telephoned me the other night and wanted to know if I'd sell the knife. The only change I would consider in re-making this knife would be the scales. When Porter made this knife it was submitted for his Journeyman status in the American Blade Smith society. It was featured in the April 1990 Knife World Magazine and they state that Bill Moran (and other Judges) " were so shocked by the design and quality of this knife they thought that a Master Blade Smith had mistakenly submitted his best work into the Journeyman class". It takes something special to "shock" or impress Bill Moran. I have owned many custom knives and currently own a Randall Alaskan Skinner, 2 Original Russels, a Tom Cute, 2 Orvis Custom knives and maybe a dozen misc. and the truth is the design and usability of this knife is so superior it makes all of them seem "defective". When Porter made this knife he had been making knives for many years and had been a tool and die maker for 15 years, he also worked at the University Of Indiana. He was a student of European and historical knives and combined in this knife elements spanning hundreds of years (maybe thousands of years) of "weapon" and "using" elements. I honestly believe this knife to be perfect in design. It is so simple but it is simply perfect. If you hold this knife, cut with it, and see how it handles in the hand, even side ways or up-side down and the flowing lines angles etc.etc. you would see what I mean. You must hold it to really grasp what he accomplished. It has so many small things that mean something. For example you cannot see a depression in the blade forward of the hilt but he hammered in a slight depression for the thumb on both sides of the blade for slashing and for slicing sideways with the thumb forward on the blade (this small point should be on every kitchen knife it's amazing what a difference it makes in slicing "thin" parallel slices). It's an excellent "fighter" and "combat" knife but is also a perfect drop point skinning knife (he called it a "Whitetail Hunter"). Far and away the best I've ever seen. This is way too long and I apologize. But the knife needs to be copied very, very closely. I guess all this praise is foolish and just my opinion. But I believe it to be true and would like to have it remembered. It's like Jefferson, or DeVinchi, or Albert Einstine, doing something wonderfull then dying and it becomes lost t the world. Cannot believe someone, somewhere didn't copy this knife already.
 
While I keep reading how much makers hate to reproduce or copy someone elses work, I see it fairly frequently...also I have drawn up knives which have had influence from existing knives and then had them made to my specs. I think a drawing of your interpretation of a knife may go over better than saying "will you make me a knife like the one so and so made."
 
You might see if Kevin Cashen would make something similar. I believe James Porter was Kevin's teacher.
 
I have spoken with Kevin Cashen and probably will send the knife to him after I get it back from Kenny Rowe. I don't know what a maker would charge to do this knife. Integrals have a reputation for being time consuming and quite expensive. Every knife I've ever owned or seen went into a catagory ie fighter, skinner etc. And many times I've said and read that no one knife design does it all. I now know thats simply not true. It's the design that's defective. Some of the Scagel -Fisk - Moran - knives with the Persian influence in the blades are on the right track. But Porter either by design or luck, forged this knife and it is "perfect" in either catagory and should be pretty much indestructible to boot being an integral design. There is not one bit of ornamentation nor anything extraneous on the knife. The simplicity and flowing lines and feel make it "beautifull". The blade flows into the hilt handle
area in such a manner I cannot say "the blade starts here" or the "handle starts here" they just kinda "morph" or "flow" together. It does have a hilt "area" but that kinda slides into the blade in one direction and the handle in the other. Porter may not have made another one in his life like this. I've seen his Bowie Knives and there is a Damascus Fighter on the web I've seen that are simply knives much like anyone elses. I have no idea why once he made this knife he didn't just re-produce it over and over. Maybe it was "too hard" or "too time consuming" or not popular enough. Maybe he did reproduce it, but I can't find one, and it was hammered over 24 years ago. I write too much about this knife every time I start and I apologize. Still looking for great knifemakers that would like to re-make the best designed knife I've ever seen at a reasonable cost. Thanks a lot for replying.
 
I think it's "admit to copying a knife design" that most have a problem with.
 
Durwood said:
While I keep reading how much makers hate to reproduce or copy someone elses work, I see it fairly frequently...also I have drawn up knives which have had influence from existing knives and then had them made to my specs.
Click to expand...

While I have seen many knives that are copies of well known makers styles, I have not seen many makers that will take another makers knife and make a direct copy of it. Even when they work in a Loveless, Moran, Scagel, etc. style, they always want to add their own little subtle characteristics to these knives. That is why you hear and see that makers don't like doing direct copies of others work.
 
is there such a thing as a direct copy - that is, one that is exactly the same and has no trace of the maker's touch/taste to it?

If so, I'd have nothing to do with it. Who wants a "custom copy"? Doesn't make sense.
 
The knife has been at Kenny Rowes for a few weeks. Seems he's swamped with making sheaths. When I get the knife back I'll try my best to take real pictures and have some one thats knowledgeable scan them in. But people will probably be un-impressed unless they hold the knife and feel it in the hand. I've shown the knife to several people and maybe 1 in 4 are very, very impressed and rate it extremely high. The others just glance at it and think it's just another knife. I personally think those that think it's just another knife simply don't know a well designed knife when they see one. All my knives are "prettier" and more impressive. For example the Randall Model 11 with the stag handle is a good knife and probably works well. But if you hold the Porter knife and compare them directly they are worlds apart. The Porter is a much stronger design, much lighter, about a thousand times more ergonomic in the hand, the blade is much better designed for skinning or fighting (and its a longer blade -how many skinning knives have you seen with a blade over 5 inches that you know would really work?), the Porters grind lines, though simple, are "elegant" in simplicity and are "perfect".
In short the Randall is a knife that "works" but the Porter is a knife that "works better" in every respect I can think of, and shows immense thought in design, and skill in execution. It does this with not one bit of ornimentation or flash, it is totally "spartan". I know all this stuff is just opinion but I have thoughtfully compared the Porter to every knife I currently have, have seen and handled, the Porter wins hands down.
 
Ok. You've got my interest.....remember to post those pics
 
hey i am jim porters nephew i inherited several of his knifes including the one that his master carried with him keep a hold of the one you have it is probebly worth a lot.
 
i would not know of anybody to remake the knife unless burt is still alive which jim never spoke about him to much good luck on remaking the knife.
 
Holy Resurrected Thread, Batman!!!

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Uh.....Welcome to Bladeforums, Greg!
 
Just spotted this thread.

I was a good friend of Jim's and have quite a few of his knives including his Master's dagger and a wonderful all damascus Sequin Bowie with damascus d-guard in the form of an eagle that was displayed at the Arkansas Territorial Museum.

I think it is a bit disrespectful to make a copy of a knife by any maker without their permission and since Jim is dead, possibly, ask his wife for permission.

IMO, Jim was a total package bladesmith and his knives were and are wonderful. He is sorely missed but my relationship with him is kept alive through his knives and my memories of him.

Craig Bird
 
CAB said:
Just spotted this thread.

I was a good friend of Jim's and have quite a few of his knives including his Master's dagger and a wonderful all damascus Sequin Bowie with damascus d-guard in the form of an eagle that was displayed at the Arkansas Territorial Museum.

I think it is a bit disrespectful to make a copy of a knife by any maker without their permission and since Jim is dead, possibly, ask his wife for permission.

IMO, Jim was a total package bladesmith and his knives were and are wonderful. He is sorely missed but my relationship with him is kept alive through his knives and my memories of him.

Craig Bird
Click to expand...

I have some photos of a couple of his knives including the bowie you have if it is the one i am thinking of black handle from the painting of Bowie with his arms crossed and knife under his left arm. I took care of Jims land for my aunt (his wife) and helped here out. In return I had full run of his shop. when going though some book I found some photos and took pics of them to save in digital. I will dig them out and show them I also have one of Jim at a show with his work on display.I can post a pic of knife #20 that has never been in public had or view other then a couple of friends and family. I would love to sare these with with those who can love his work and respect the heart put into them. I also have his forge, knife steel, some other eguipment and materials from his shop that i inherrited. and have been working on follow some big big shoes lol. If someone could tell me how to get picture up on here i will post some of his knives. The knife i have of his is the only jawbone hande knife he did and one of 3 pattern blades he did. the other to blades are swords. I may be able to get pics of some of his other Knifes as well they are a few left in the family including a folder he carried with him made of damascus. I will see what i can do. Thanks for helping keep him alive by collecting and saving his work and your experiances with him.

stephen
 
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