Remember the damascus shotgun barrels?

Bruce Bump

Bruce Bump

Joined
Dec 2, 1999
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People are afraid to fire them today with the high powered loads because they could come unwrapped but I want to know exactly how they were made. Im thinking of making something new... I mean old. Is there a book or site I can check out?
 
The only reference I have seen, it taking a band/bar and wrapping and coil down around a cool round bar. I believe I remember seeing the same bar then heated to welding heat and finish forged in some sort of die or swage. Sorry, can't remember where I saw that.

That's the best I got. Don't quote me! he he :cool:
 
Bruce I'm sure you've already thought of it but if it's a short enough barrel you could just make a twist bilet and drill it out? I'm guessing the damascus shotgun barrels were twisted from the previous description, sure never had the joy to see one. I've been wanting a damascus slide for my 1911... :D

Dave
 
I would like to see one of the high-end shotgun manufacturers come out with a clad or "san mai" version of an old/new barrel. It could take the pressures of the shotshells produced today with a damascus barrel that has a "newer technology lining".

C Wilkins
 
Actually 100% Damascus barrels can be stronger than modern fluid steel barrels. Ross Seyfried, the gun writer, did a write up a couple of years ago (can't remember in what mag) about an outfit in Scotland that is producing modern made firearms using Damascus barrels and when proofed they proved to handle pressures almost twice that of regular steel barrels.

There are literally thousands of Damascus guns still in use and in most European countries you can have them taken in and proofed for modern loads.

The old wives tale (and it has proven to be just that in most cases about Damascus barrels "exploding" - Mr Seyfried has a standing $5,000.00 offer to anyone that can prove that such a barrel burst from just using standard loads) is three fold. Real Damascus was used mainly on high end guns such as Purdeys and H & H and they used them up until WWI. After that many of the skilled help had either been killed in the war or were just too old and expenses had gone up so the use of plain steel became more the vogue. 1) Older guns MAY be weakened due to mainly the use of corrosive primers that MAY have eaten away the softer iron at a faster rate. 2) Many el cheapo guns of that era were made with "fake" Damascus barrels and inferior steels that blew up. Ergo Damascus was no good because it blew up. 3) and probably most important many of the old guns had 2 1/2" or 2 5/8" chambers - most modern shotshells (post 1920 or so) are 2 3/4". Stick a long shell in a short chamber and pressures build and ....?

Anyway excuse my longwindedness - I have shot and continue to shoot Damascus barrels using proper care just like I would with any gun especially older ones.

Bruce my best advice would be to go to the various sites on double guns such as www.gunshop.com. which will give you a start. Also http://damascus.free.fr/f_biblio/livr.htm has an offer at the bottom of the page to write and ask questions regarding Damascus and it's various uses. Jason lists the basic process. The mandrel should be sub caliber so that you can ream the bore to size. I have a picture of an octagon barrel swage anvil if you are interested.

CL do a search on "double guns" and you will find many high end guns with sleeved Damascus barrels.

Hope all this helps.
 
Interesting.
I know rifle barrels were bored and reamed from a solid blank, I've seen the tooling used and it does not look like fun. I think you would definitely have a set of shoulders on you if you did it on a regular basis ;) Course that was with old handpowered stuff.

Only thought I have on a shotgun barrel is that its got a bore big enough you might be able to forge it around a peice of thick walled pipe that has water running through it. Maybe with a press and special die. I don't know about getting the right constriction for the choke though, I guess you either do that when you lap the bore, or forge it around something tapered.
 
A friend of mine had some old damascus shotgun barrels and he
re-forged them into barstock and then into bolster material. Here is a pic of the knife.



r-wright-bol-rel-1.jpg
 
The gentlemen that runs our Fine Gun Rooms has some damascus guns, and has experience in making the barrels. If you want, I could put you in touch with him. Just shoot me an e-mail.
 
I've seen a £50,000 ($87,000USD) Purdy and it wasn't damascene. I wonder what the price tag would be for one with a set of damascus barrels?:confused:
 
There was an excellent thread on this topic over at sword forum. damascus barrel making

Unfortunately, the most interesting part seems to be unavailable now. One gentleman there posted several pages that he had scanned from an old book, directly describing how the barrels were made, complete with illustrations. It might be worthwhile to track down that person and send him an email for the title.
 
ugh, for the record, my dads guns werent fancy, he got rid of them because they wouldnt be safe for shooting, i doubt they were worth anything
 
All I really know for true sure about damascus barrels is a great Uncle brought a double back from Belgium after the war and gave it to a first Uncle of mine. It came up stollen in the late seventies (as I recall). I used to ask to look at it almost every time I visited. Back then I didn't know enough about fine firearms to remember the maker. I remember it as embellished though.

rl
 
http://www.briley.com/grampa.html

Not very detailed, but hopefully helpful:

Exerpt:

Damascus or twist-steel barrels are made by layering alternate strips of steel and iron then welding them together. The strips are then twisted until they resembled a screw, three of these wound strips are then welded together, wound around a steel mandrel, then welded and hammered into a barrel tube. Laminated steel barrels are a bit different. They start with a ball of steel and iron that is then hammered into long strips and twisted, then, like their Damascus cousin, wound around a mandrel, welded and hammered into a barrel tube. Inherently, these barrels are quite strong, and many best-quality Damascus barrels pass nitro proof.
 
XerO, thanks for the article. I did notice one, either misprint, or mistake here,

"Added to that is the fact that these guns were primarily used with non-corrosive priming, and are therefore potentially honeycombed with weak spots."

I think they meant "corrosive" priming, which contained mercuric salts, and were Hell on barrels.:eek: :D
 
Thanks for all the great replies Guys. I read almost everything and it seems it will be a real challenge to make my own barrels but I like a challenge. The twisted 3 rod method around the mandrel seems more possible for one person instead of three. I also thought about an iron pipe with damascus wrapping. It would be stronger and less likely to corrode or worse explode. All I am trying to do is make a simple little war hawk with a matchlock ignitor system. The barrel will be the handle. The 50 or 60 cal. ball will exit through the hawk head. It should be an interesting project dont you agree?
 
Bruce,
The hawk you described sounds very cool. It sounds like you don't need much barrel length though. I would think 6 to 8 inches of barrel would be plenty. The rest of the handle could be a solid billet. You could turn your handle on a lathe then bore and sleeve the firing portion. this would yeild a strong handle with outmuch work once the damascuss billet was forged. Patrick
 
George I thought you may want to fire the thing. You may go down in Hawk History.

Patrick, I like that idea. The gun barrel portion really doesnt need to be very long. The rest of the handle could even be wood if I can attach it to the steel barrel. I bet I can buy 10" long drill bits and a liner kit in a popular calibur from Brownells. Good thinking.
 
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