Removing the burr without creating a micro-bevel?

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JMFWSU

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Hi,

Just learning on my Norton India Combination stone. It seems like alternating, light strokes at the same angle of sharpening don't remove the burr. When I increase the angle a little, this seems to remove the burr better, but am I creating a micro-bevel by doing this? Is there a smarter way to remove the burr?

Thanks,
Jason
 
Doing those high angle passes at the lightest possible pressure will make only the tiniest microbevel. I have read of people who then "backsharpen" a few strokes at the normal angle to remove that microbevel.
 
I have the same problem. Only way for me to remove my burr ON STONES is to raise the angle. U can then go back to your regular angle after you have debuted and just do very light alternating strokes... you can also remove your burr by lightly pulling your edge into a cork or a soft wood a couple times.. for the first month I actually knew how to sharpen that was my only way I could fully remove it.. after that go to light alternating strokes if u feel u have lost any of your sharpness which you shouldnt
 
The light stropping pass over the stone at a higher angle to de-burr hardly creates what I would call a microbevel, at least when I sharpen. When I microbevel, I usually end up with a small burr there!

Anyhow, one thing you can do is pull the edge through the corner of a piece of wood with some decent pressure, then take the edge to a strop.
 
I agree with the other people here but would add :
some blade alloys are way easier to debur or form much less of a bur and so are MUCH easier to deal with. Generally softer less expensive and more STAINLESS blades form big floppy burs that just want to stay.
The steel that tends to be harder, up around 60 (as apposed to 55, 56 etc) and tending to be less stainless I find they are a joy to sharpen at least from a bur stand point. Specifically M390 and M4 although I never have much trouble deburing White Paper steel (fairly plain high carbon Japanese blades but on the hard side ~60 to 62 or even harder.

Don't be afraid to sharpen your main bevel less steep than you want to end up with and then do your final passes at the angle you want to use the blade at. A micro bevel I suppose but at least you are getting the edge characteristics you want.
 
Super light pressure, short leading passes. The burr is a little proud, so you almost have to make contact with just the burr.

You can also backdrag the edge along some hardwood or plastic at 90° (lightly) to make the burr stand higher.

Is also important to not flip the burr too many times, the attachment point gets weaker with consecutive flips and it will take a lighter and lighter touch to get rid of it.

You can also elevate the spine to get rid of it and follow up with a few light passes at the original angle to re-establish the edge with no microbevel.
 
Removing the burr is the reason for stropping. Simply flipping the burr side to side causes it to break off. This is done on leather, usually.
People have evolved stropping into sharpening, using compounds and pastes as abrasives.
 
JMFWSU said:
Hi,

Just learning on my Norton India Combination stone. It seems like alternating, light strokes at the same angle of sharpening don't remove the burr. When I increase the angle a little, this seems to remove the burr better, but am I creating a micro-bevel by doing this? Is there a smarter way to remove the burr?

Thanks,
Jason
Click to expand...
Hi,
Cutting off burrs with high angle edge leading passes is about as good as it gets (its like magic:D).

And yes, you are creating a microbevel,
and if you slice some paper newspaper you can even hear the high angle make noisy slices,
but its not a problem , at least not for long,
if you did 1-2 alternating edge leading passes to deburr
then 1-10 alternating edge leading passes to backsharpen
it will get rid of the microbevel to where you can't hear it or feel it anymore

Try it out, sharpen, raise a tiny burr, use high angle passes to deburr,
then cut some printer paper or newspaper, slice push cut whatever,
listen to how it sounds very noisy,

then do 1 alternating pass per side at original angle,
and cut some paper and listen to how it sounds

then do 1 alternating pass per side at original angle,
and cut some paper and listen to how it sounds

in under 10 passes per side it will stop sounding so very noisy and get much much quieter

High angle deburring, its very powerful :)
[video=youtube;oRmcQ-MqbBE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oRmcQ-MqbBE[/video]
[video=youtube;EcrnigC3Anc]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EcrnigC3Anc[/video]
[video=youtube;_STUM1z8iJM]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_STUM1z8iJM[/video]
 
The lighter your touch, as you very gradually raise the angle, the less an issue the resulting alteration of the edge angle will be. Whatever 'microbevel' may be formed in doing so, it won't likely be perceptable at all. Also, the better you become at steadily reducing pressure at the original bevel angle, the thinner the burr at the edge will be. The thinner it becomes, the easier it'll be to remove, with virtually no need to raise the edge angle at all.

My favored method, when deburring, is to use a smaller stone held in the fingertips of one hand, while handling the knife with the other (also held very gently, but still in control of the angle). Depending on the size of the stone, sometimes I'll just pick up the bench stone for this. When doing this, I have both the stone and the blade oriented so I'm looking directly into the cutting edge, so I can see the apex contacting the stone's surface. I switch the stone & blade between hands, to keep the same orientation for both sides, always looking directly into the cutting edge. Done this way, it's very easy to 'start low' on the shoulders and very gently raise the angle until the apex is just making light contact for the edge-leading deburring passes. I find it much, much easier to control pressure at a featherlight level, and this always works well in removing the last remaining bits of the burr. I always finish this way, and it has never disappointed me. I often don't need to finish on a strop at all, when done this way, save for perhaps a few cleanup passes on my jeans, or on the inside face of my leather belt, used like a hanging strop.

I've never liked intentionally focusing on raising the angle to de-burr the edge. For me, that line of thought creates a tendency to try it too soon in the refining stages, when the burr is still relatively heavy. If done then, a more noticeable microbevel will result. If one remains patient, just steadily reducing the pressure at the original angle will yield a better result, as the burr becomes so thin it's almost effortless to remove it, in just a pass or two. With many steels in fact, it'll become thin enough to break off or crumble away pretty much on it's own. I've had them come off on my fingertip, when lightly wiping the edge to inspect it.


David
 
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Re reading your original post I'll add one last thought. Don't rely on alternating passes, look and verify what you're doing and the effect. When doing light work like final burr removal if you fudge one side on one pass it will have a negative effect - essentially doing two or more passes on the same side when you thought you were hitting back and forth. Observe often.

If you have a strong side that seems to have better consistency, push the entire burr to that side and deal with it in a single operation as best you can - no back and forth.
 
My favored method, when deburring, is to use a smaller stone held in the fingertips of one hand, while handling the knife with the other (also held very gently, but still in control of the angle). Depending on the size of the stone, sometimes I'll just pick up the bench stone for this. When doing this, I have both the stone and the blade oriented so I'm looking directly into the cutting edge, so I can see apex contacting the stone's surface. I switch the stone & blade between hands, to keep the same orientation for both sides, always looking directly into the cutting edge. Done this way, it's very easy to 'start low' on the shoulders and very gently raise the angle until the apex is just making light contact for the edge-leading deburring passes. I find it much, much easier to control pressure at a featherlight level, and this always works well in removing the last remaining bits of the burr. I always finish this way, and it has never disappointed me. I often don't need to finish on a strop at all, when done this way
Click to expand...

EXCELLENT
Similar to what I do some times. Little chunk of Norton 8000.
Lately I have been using the Spyderco Ultra Fine triangle free hand as you describe.
WHEN that does not work some times I know I can fall back on the Norton 8000 to get it done.
 
Bill DeShivs said:
Removing the burr is the reason for stropping. Simply flipping the burr side to side causes it to break off. This is done on leather, usually.
People have evolved stropping into sharpening, using compounds and pastes as abrasives.
Click to expand...

Still need to weaken the burr on the stone before moving to leather.
 
I will sometimes draw my blades though a de-burring block which is made of hard felt or draw it though natural cork. Three passes is usually more than enough to get rid of the burr
 
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