Request help on identification older Schrade, Please..

sunnyd

sunnyd

Joined
Jul 17, 2004
Messages
6,425
Hello there Schrade experts, collectors, and enthusiast's!. I would like to submit the following Hawkbill style knife which I acquired recently, to have you all kindly assist me in dating the vintage, and steel(carbon steel I know, but 1095 or some other.) type:

000_1339.jpg


000_1340.jpg


Thank You,

Anthony
 
Irv and Thawk,

Wow, Great information here!. I really appreciate your efforts here so far fellows!.:thumbup:

Thawk, your quote about the knife's "re-grind" could be true but I believe it had a sheepsfoot to begin with. If you look at the same vintage of Hawkbill knife with the signature curved blade you will see a kick with a point, conversely a knife with sheepsfoot blade has a square kick, like the one I have. And of coarse there is also Codger64's post in a thread shown in post #2 here by Irv that speaks to the model #186, the pruning knife which describes this model that I have with the sheepsfoot blade.

BTW, If there is any way to narrow the dating period down, it would much obliged.
 
sunnyd said:
Irv and Thawk,

Wow, Great information here!. I really appreciate your efforts here so far fellows!.:thumbup:

Thawk, your quote about the knife's "re-grind" could be true but I believe it had a sheepsfoot to begin with. If you look at the same vintage of Hawkbill knife with the signature curved blade you will see a kick with a point, conversely a knife with sheepsfoot blade has a square kick, like the one I have. And of coarse there is also Codger64's post in a thread shown in post #2 here by Irv that speaks to the model #186, the pruning knife which describes this model that I have with the sheepsfoot blade.

BTW, If there is any way to narrow the dating period down, it would much obliged.
Click to expand...

I think you are right about the blade. It looks too clean to have a new profile. That was a 186. No idea how long the pattern lasted. Dating Schrades is kind of tough. It shows the same knife in 1948 as a 1361. I did not see one with a sheepsfoot.
 
Hi Anthony, nice to see you drop in here...:D

I would agree with thawk's original thought that your knife appears to have been reprofiled. The model with the sheepsfoot blade is the 163, I believe. There were 4 pin and 3 pin models of the 186, which can be seen especially well in post #96 (Kaleb's) in the Hawkbill thread, in which you are participating, there in the Traditional forum. The fact that you have a 3 pin model with the model number on the pile side, may eventually help in the dating. The possible reprofile (tipped blade?...owner's choice?) looks like a good job, and it's also possible the kick was filed flat so the end of the blade didn't sit proud of the handle.

Mostly JMO, however...and still a nice knife, for sure.

Bill
 
In a 1950 catalog they list the 186 together with the old number 1361 and the whopping price of 15.00 a dozen. the 136 is listed at 16.50 a doz. those bales are expensive.. ;) 1948 catalog shows with the old 1361 number. So I'll guess they switched catalog numbers in tween 1949-1950. They did this a couple more times in the 80's because of thse darn computer things but tried to keep the catalog numbers the same.
from 1950-1969 no shackle had 4 pins (in the catalogs pictures)
In 1970 the 186 is shown with a bale and 3 pins at 5.50 each
So we have it narrowed down to 1950-1970 for the 186 without a bale/shackle. The last year I see the 186 with the shackle is 1983. I Dont think we can get it any closer. IN all cases the blade is called a pruning blade and is in the horticultural section of the catalog and pricelists.

Now comes some confusion...
The 136 ,163 and 186 all have different bolsters (pinched?) than this one pictured.
Look at the 175 next to the catalog picture of the 186. Ok Im gonna go look some more..

Hope that helps.
 
El Lobo said:
Hi Anthony, nice to see you drop in here...:D

I would agree with thawk's original thought that your knife appears to have been reprofiled. The model with the sheepsfoot blade is the 163, I believe. There were 4 pin and 3 pin models of the 186, which can be seen especially well in post #96 (Kaleb's) in the Hawkbill thread, in which you are participating, there in the Traditional forum. The fact that you have a 3 pin model with the model number on the pile side, may eventually help in the dating. The possible reprofile (tipped blade?...owner's choice?) looks like a good job, and it's also possible the kick was filed flat so the end of the blade didn't sit proud of the handle.

Mostly JMO, however...and still a nice knife, for sure.

Bill
Click to expand...

I have to agree with everything said by Bill
 
lrv said:
In a 1950 catalog they list the 186 together with the old number 1361 and the whopping price of 15.00 a dozen. the 136 is listed at 16.50 a doz. those bales are expensive.. ;) 1948 catalog shows with the old 1361 number. So I'll guess they switched catalog numbers in tween 1949-1950. They did this a couple more times in the 80's because of thse darn computer things but tried to keep the catalog numbers the same.
from 1950-1969 no shackle had 4 pins (in the catalogs pictures)
In 1970 the 186 is shown with a bale and 3 pins at 5.50 each
So we have it narrowed down to 1950-1970 for the 186 without a bale/shackle. The last year I see the 186 with the shackle is 1983. I Dont think we can get it any closer. IN all cases the blade is called a pruning blade and is in the horticultural section of the catalog and pricelists.

Now comes some confusion...
The 136 ,163 and 186 all have different bolsters (pinched?) than this one pictured.
Look at the 175 next to the catalog picture of the 186. Ok Im gonna go look some more..

Hope that helps.
Click to expand...

Yes Sir.. This does indeed help narrow the dates down quite a bit. You are a plethora in information Irv. Thanks does not nearly go far enough to express my gratitude to you and everyone else here thus far.:thumbup:
 
El Lobo said:
Hi Anthony, nice to see you drop in here...:D

I would agree with thawk's original thought that your knife appears to have been reprofiled. The model with the sheepsfoot blade is the 163, I believe. There were 4 pin and 3 pin models of the 186, which can be seen especially well in post #96 (Kaleb's) in the Hawkbill thread, in which you are participating, there in the Traditional forum. The fact that you have a 3 pin model with the model number on the pile side, may eventually help in the dating. The possible reprofile (tipped blade?...owner's choice?) looks like a good job, and it's also possible the kick was filed flat so the end of the blade didn't sit proud of the handle.
Mostly JMO, however...and still a nice knife, for sure.

Bill
Click to expand...

Hello to you too, Bill. Glad you could chime in here.. The statement made about the three pins and the 186 stamping on the obverse side of the blade tang seems to be right on since Irv continues to narrow down the dating here with every post after checking his catalogues and other reference media.

As far as the statement you made about the the possible blade re-profile and kick being filed down flat, I must now concur. To the naked eye it is impossible to tell(at least for me anyway;)) but after glassing it under good light it appears you are spot on with that theory my friend, as I can see very faint, but nonetheless, tool marks that could be either a file or grinder. The dead give-a-way for me was when closely examined by all angles the apparent flat kick is not exactly level, as if it were done free hand rather then in a cutlers work station.

Thanks very kindly Bill, I am much obliged for your thoughts!. I am really starting to love this forum too by the way. Lots of great folks who seem to really like to help here.:thumbup:
 
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