Resharp a sharp blade?

J

JohnIrish

Joined
Mar 5, 2006
Messages
34
i just picked up a Spyderco Sprig knife ( cpm s90v). It came somewhat sharp but with a very ruff grained edge. It would slice phone book paper but would often catch the edge.

To sharpen, I used Shapton glass stones 500, 2000, 6000, 16000.... then I stropped with a white compound. I am new to stropping.

My sharpening skill level is still in a learning mode. It will easily slice phone book paper ( long side).... slice the top/bottom sides ( I find this more difficult maybe because of the grain of the paper?). It will push cut the phone book paper but not always cleanly.

Maybe I reached the best of my ability.... but if I wanted to try to make it better... what would you recommend?

Do I start all over again beginning with the 500 stone? Do I start with the 2000 or 6000?

I am confused if I even need to strop ... how would you compare the 16000 to a white strop? Should I try a diamond spray? I have never tried those. I am still confused as to where the 16000 fits in.

I am very happy I can get it this sharp.... but wondering how to try to push the edge a little more? ( pun intended!)

Thanks
 
Hi my man, congrats on being suitably pleased with your sharpening skills already. As has been said above, steels high in vanadium carbine really need diamonds at the finer grits.

Typically I would expect to get the results your are referring to off just the 500 stone.

In all likelihood your stones progression is not refining the apex as much as you would like. Snagging on the paper suggests some burr remnants. You obviously have the basics down so it is just a case of refining technique, using the sharpie method and a loupe to examine the results of your strokes on the edge.

Good luck
 
I needed an excuse to try out some diamond stones! I just ordered some DMT stones and a 1 micron diamond spray.

I have other “super” steels so the diamonds should be helpful anyway.

Thanks!
 
For s90v I would stop at 500 grit then switch over to diamond compound.

Probably 7 micron would be my first after 500 grit then take it down to 1 micron in a few steps.
 
I believe the stropping compound in those crayons use chrome oxide as an abrasive. The Bark River white compound is listed as 12K.
For reference, on the Mohs scale, chrome oxide is 8.0-8.5
Aluminum Oxide (used in most waterstones) is 9.0
Silicon Carbide 9-9.5
Diamond, of course, is 10
 
Get diamonds stones for sure that the ticket for that steel.

The Venev OCB are great stones for doing a polished edge,they now have a 800 and 1200 grit OCB stone and they are supposed to be releasing a 400 grit stone in about 6 weeks to 2 months from what I heard.

When I do a polished edge and if I don't want get every single scratch out of the blade just most or a good amount and I'm wanting a polished edge performance and not a true polished edge look I stop at the Venev 1200 witch is the same grit as a 4K Japanese water stone then I start using my Japanese water stones like the Chosera's or my Sigma Power 6 10 and 13K stones,I also use a medium grit rust eraser to make a bit of a slurry on the Sigma Power stones.

The OCB give a much better scratch pattern then the standard Venev stone imho

https://www.gritomatic.com/collecti...s/venev-ocb-bonded-diamond-stone-for-edge-pro

JohnIrish said:
i just picked up a Spyderco Sprig knife ( cpm s90v). It came somewhat sharp but with a very ruff grained edge. It would slice phone book paper but would often catch the edge.

To sharpen, I used Shapton glass stones 500, 2000, 6000, 16000.... then I stropped with a white compound. I am new to stropping.

My sharpening skill level is still in a learning mode. It will easily slice phone book paper ( long side).... slice the top/bottom sides ( I find this more difficult maybe because of the grain of the paper?). It will push cut the phone book paper but not always cleanly.

Maybe I reached the best of my ability.... but if I wanted to try to make it better... what would you recommend?

Do I start all over again beginning with the 500 stone? Do I start with the 2000 or 6000?

I am confused if I even need to strop ... how would you compare the 16000 to a white strop? Should I try a diamond spray? I have never tried those. I am still confused as to where the 16000 fits in.

I am very happy I can get it this sharp.... but wondering how to try to push the edge a little more? ( pun intended!)

Thanks
Click to expand...
 
JohnIrish said:
if I wanted to try to make it better... what would you recommend?
Click to expand...
An Edge Pro Apex
After 16,000 on an edge Pro I feel the stropping compound is gilding the lilly.
Heck I get phenomenal edge performance from 4,000 grit Shapton Glass and if I want to waste time fooling with finer grit I use the Suehiro G8 8000 for the Edge Pro knife sharpener.

No actually that is a fantastic stone and I enjoy the edge it produces and the over all experience using that stone. To see what I mean you have only get one and try it.

I have a Shapton Pro 15,000 that I use with a different jig for my woodworking edges but it is just fooling around the 8,000 Shapton Pro or Norton water stone produce staggeringly nice cutting edges.

It's about how accurately you can present the stone to the edge not really about how fine the grit is after a certain point.
 
I get a biting edge on CPM S110V (kissing cousin to S90V) starting with a DMT Dia-Sharp ultra coarse (220 grit), finishing with fine (red) or ultra fine (green). Stropping doesn't seem to have much effect but a few strokes on a smooth steel seems to add an extra touch to the edge.
 
Wowbagger said:
use diamond spray if you MUST use a nasty old strop.
Click to expand...
the reason why most people don't have diamond spray is because it costs so much. if 150mL cost like 5$, everybody would buy and try it. I'm very confident that ds is great effective stuff but at 50$ i rather buy 3pcs of 204UF which'd last me 3 lifetimes.
with the cost in mind, using the ds would ruin my joy during the sharpening sessions.

looks like i have a problem. maybe it's just me haha
 
kreisler said:
the reason why most people don't have diamond spray is because it costs so much. if 150mL cost like 5$, everybody would buy and try it. I'm very confident that ds is great effective stuff but at 50$ i rather buy 3pcs of 204UF which'd last me 3 lifetimes.
with the cost in mind, using the ds would ruin my joy during the sharpening sessions.

looks like i have a problem. maybe it's just me haha
Click to expand...

It's not just you. :D

That's mainly why I've stopped spending any more money on diamond compounds. I still have some DMT Dia-Paste left, but probably won't replace it when it's used up. I've become pretty happy with my 'super steel' edges finished on diamond hones alone. Most of these steels don't need much anyway in terms of burr removal. They usually don't leave much of a burr at all, especially on a clean-cutting diamond hone. And I don't crave mirrored bevels on my edges anymore, which would otherwise be the only reason I'd spend more $$ on diamond polishing compounds at all. They do work great for that, but I don't need that kind of finish anyway, for my uses.
 
kreisler said:
Obsessed with Edges Obsessed with Edges you're healed then. the obsession under control

:D
Click to expand...

Yes, I think I'm 'over it' now. Sort of, anyway. :)

Maybe the obsession is 'redirected' now, in a way. I've been encouraged enough by results I've managed on the hones alone, that now I'm trying to find out how far I can make that go on the improvement curve. Keep striving, in other words. Onward I go...
 
Wowbagger said:
Forget the white compound; use diamond spray if you MUST use a nasty old strop.
Click to expand...

Nasty? Why? Or just unnecessary once final polish is achieved?
 
Wowbagger is not a fan of stropping for the reason's I'm not as well.

I strop some steels but not all steels however,if you look at M390 and M4 for example stropping is pretty much useless unless you use a diamond spray or a 10 Carat diamond paste like I use.
I find that with M390 and M4 once you get to a 6 to 8K finish stropping is not needed for sure and the same apply's to a lot of PM steel's.

You can strop M390 and M4 but for the speed at witch it refine's the edge is extremely slow and takes forever,I have spent along time stropping a knife in M390 using 3 different diamond paste's and it still didn't do crap,it made the edge a bit sharper but nothing to brag about.

I find on some low Vanadium PM steels and normal steel's stropping can really help but on the really wear resistant steel's including ZDP-189 your not going to see much of a gain,your time would be better spent using a Suehiro 10 and 15K stone,the 10K is closer to a 15K the way it finish's an edge and the 15K is more like a 25K,the Suehiro stones seem to be under rated in their grit if you ask me.

David Mary said:
Nasty? Why? Or just unnecessary once final polish is achieved?
Click to expand...
 
I treat most of my edges the same way now, whether a knife I've made, or one I've bought and modded: profile primary edge on the Ken Onion Edition Worksharp to 9° per side (sometimes with a head start on my 2 x 42 grinder), then microbevel 20° per side on the sharpmaker brown (come on, they're gray!) stones. Once I get there, my edges shave hair easily off my leg, slice cardboard and paper like nothing, perform all work tasks as I desire, and that is enough for me. And these edges are usually way sharper than most non-knuts are used to on their department store knives (especially after years of use without sharpening!). I used to go for mirror edges and all that, but I don't find them necessary for me - and my knives are users.

Sometimes I strop after sharpening if the hairs are not popping off as easily as I would like. And sometimes I strop after use. Other times, I merely give a few passes on the gray stones. I am still figuring out what works best for me and gives me the results I want with the least hassle.

EDIT: I should add that I don't yet have a whole lot of experience with steels harder than S30V and XHP. I have a 204P Military that the strop sometimes seems to help, and I have not used my ZDP Dragonfly, or S110V Manix 2 enough yet to really know how much stropping can help them.
 
Last edited:
With S110v don't go past a 1200 or 1500 stone rated in the Japanese grit rating system,you can strop S110v to refine the edge and de-burr it but if you try and do a true polished edge on S110v it will dull really fast after a few cut's but if you leave the edge toothy it will cut longer.

If you want polished edge performance but don't want to spend a lot of time polishing the edge,get a guided system that use's edge pro format stones and then get the Metallic Bonded CBN stones the F120 really cut's fast then get a few of the higher grit's they have a J8000 J10000 and J15000 grit stones out as well from what I have been reading.

I like the CBN stones myself and I sometimes use the Venev 1200 OCB resin bond stone and the J8000 CBN as finishing stones,although the Venev stone is a 4K grit stone the OCB bond leaves a better scratch pattern then the J8000 CBN,I have 2 800 OCB stones are going to be shipping soon and the OCB bond is much better then the standard Venev stones as far as scratch pattern goes.

If you have never tried a Benchmade knife in M390 steel they are great,Benchmade seem's to really have the heat treating dialed in on M390,go to knifeworks and type in 810 or Benchmade 810 I have to of the Contego 810's in M390 with the Black and Blue scales and M390 is a very aggressive cutting blade steel,I got the M390 because it holds and edge for a really while and it's a stainless so rusting won't be an problem.

The Benchmade Contego 810 is only 169.00 right now at knifeworks and it's an exclusive to them,I'm surprised that knife isn't more like 220.00
 
I was actually really tempted to buy a Benchmade Contego, the very same one you mention, but Benchmade did something I am not fond of, so I will not be buying any of their products, no matter how much I like them.

As for CBN, I had though about that, but for the sharpmaker. Or the diamond rods. Seems they are said to be functionally equivalent.
 
What did Benchmade do that your not fond of,is it a business thing or design thing.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top