Resharpening ZDP-189

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Apr 2, 2005
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I've already re-sharpened my Caly Jr. Burgundy, now I've to face same problem with my WilliamsHenry B-12FT with same steel material.

I'm pretty satisfied with it, but I found out that the nearly mirror finished factory sharpening is not suitable to my cutting tasks (cardboard, row, half chewed liquorice sticks). Thus, would it be any drawback in sharpening this steel (ZDP-189) with a little bit more coarse stone? I'm mainly thinking about the 67RC hardness and the eventuality of running into chipping problems if going too coarse.
I've the Apex Pro with 100, 180, 220, 320 and 600 stones. IMHO the match would be between 320 and 600.
What's your advice?

TIA
 
I often run that class of steel with a more coarse finish, nothing specific problem wise, it has the same drawbacks of coarse edges in general. I would wonder about cardboard though, highly polished edges will cut cardboard very well on a push, if this isn't happening I would be concerned about method and/or the edge profile, it may be excessively thick/obtuse.

-Cliff
 
Cliff Stamp said:
I often run that class of steel with a more coarse finish, nothing specific problem wise, it has the same drawbacks of coarse edges in general. I would wonder about cardboard though, highly polished edges will cut cardboard very well on a push, if this isn't happening I would be concerned about method and/or the edge profile, it may be excessively thick/obtuse.

-Cliff

On a push it'll cut cardboard. It is definitely hair popping. Yet the Caly outperforms it . WH looks like having a 18° angle per side (as my Caly) but it is too much polished (lets say 1000grit EdgePro tape strip).

I cannot figure out if it is really too much polished or something else. Thus here I'm thinking about selling the WH B-12FT Titan as it is (i.e. untouched and brand new) to get bucks for a custom (maybe a Darrel Ralph GH "GUNHAMMER" EDC-X™) or just keep the WH resharpening it.

What's your opinion?
 
The Calyso Jr. is really slim in profile both in terms of the primary and the edge thickness and angle, I would expect most knives (including customs) would need to be reprofiled before they could match its cutting ability even at the same sharpness.

-Cliff
 
Cliff Stamp said:
The Calyso Jr. is really slim in profile both in terms of the primary and the edge thickness and angle, I would expect most knives (including customs) would need to be reprofiled before they could match its cutting ability even at the same sharpness.

-Cliff

I see what you mean, yet the WH I mentioned has a less thick spine and is also hollow ground :confused:
 
Generally spine thickness has little influence except in extremes, most forces while cutting are concentrated around the edge so that is the most critical part. Does the hollow grind taper to a thin edge? Does is not start the cut well or does it bind when the blade is in deep. Some hollow grinds will bind at the top of the blade due to the fact that they are ground much like a "T".

-Cliff
 
Cliff Stamp said:
Generally spine thickness has little influence except in extremes, most forces while cutting are concentrated around the edge so that is the most critical part. Does the hollow grind taper to a thin edge? Does is not start the cut well or does it bind when the blade is in deep. Some hollow grinds will bind at the top of the blade due to the fact that they are ground much like a "T".

-Cliff

It starts cutting slightly not well.
Lets tak the Caly as comparison:
1)Cutting cardboard: push draw motion but Caly requires less vertical force

2)Splitting an orange into two halves to make an orange juice: push draw motion but Caly requires less vertical force and less draw motion and yes, in this case some binding when blade is in deep occurs.

3)Cutting synthetic climbing row (1/2" of diameter): Caly nearly does it with pushing only, WH requires push-draw.

I do know I'm talking about really tinsie differences but pricewise talking......
 
It sounds like the edge is thicker and or more obtuse and may be rounded. The Spyderco Calypso Jr.'s seem to come with very acute edges, several were measured on the forums and were around 10 degrees per side, acute even for Spyderco, the edge thickness was also minimal. Apply a primary relief grind of 10 degrees to the WH and micro-bevel at about 15 and it should be much improved. In general price doesn't correlate well to cutting ability, a lot of the more expensive knives are so because of other issues. Spyderco however has functionality as a large part of the design and thus tends to do very well in any performance based comparisons.

-Cliff
 
Cliff Stamp said:
It sounds like the edge is thicker and or more obtuse and may be rounded. The Spyderco Calypso Jr.'s seem to come with very acute edges, several were measured on the forums and were around 10 degrees per side, acute even for Spyderco, the edge thickness was also minimal. Apply a primary relief grind of 10 degrees to the WH and micro-bevel at about 15 and it should be much improved. In general price doesn't correlate well to cutting ability, a lot of the more expensive knives are so because of other issues. Spyderco however has functionality as a large part of the design and thus tends to do very well in any performance based comparisons.

-Cliff

Technical part: ok, but what kind of grit would you recommend me for primary and what for secondary?

Price: you're right, but my idea was "Ok, same blade steel Caly costs x and WH costs 4x" cannot I deserve a more real world cutting power instead of a beatiful looking of the edge itself?".
And WH performs 2 to 3 HRC more than Caly....
 
Yes, it would be nice if that was the case, but it often isn't. Performance isn't as strongly liked to knife cost as much as appearance and name. For the primary , grit doesn't matter. I cut them with a 200 silicon carbide, and finish with a 800 aluminum oxide, the knife at this point should be very sharp. For the secondary, I have lately been running very high polishes on that class of knives as once you get really thin and acute there is little need to draw cut usually. I finish at 1200 DMT and a few passes on chromium/aluminum oxide on leather then plain newsprint. If you do this though, you change the look of the knife significantly as that much of a relief will widen the edge bevel and likely influence the secondary market value.

-Cliff
 
What Cliff means is that your best cutters will get pretty ugly. You'd better be sure you want performance, and are not considering re-selling them, because no one will buy them.

Whenever I get a knife with potential, I grind it so thin that damage is quite likely if I'm careless, then the secondary bevel helps, and is trivially easy to put on freehand. These knives will never win any beauty awards, though. I have a couple of exceptions, one being a Busse BA3. It's a nice enough knife that when I thinned the bevel out on my Edgepro, I took it all the way up to the 3000 grit tapes, so even though I have a bevel 3/8 to 1/2 inch wide, it's highly polished and looks great! Purely aesthetics, of course, but I like it!
 
Cliff Stamp said:
Yes, it would be nice if that was the case, but it often isn't. Performance isn't as strongly liked to knife cost as much as appearance and name.......zip..If you do this though, you change the look of the knife significantly as that much of a relief will widen the edge bevel and likely influence the secondary market value.

-Cliff

I do understand, thus I'll think about it a while.
Polishing: I can go EdgePro 1000, 3000 and 3M 12000 .

Thanks Cliff
 
sodak said:
What Cliff means is that your best cutters will get pretty ugly. You'd better be sure you want performance, and are not considering re-selling them, because no one will buy them....zip........

I'm deeply thinking about implementing such an aggressive edge. Reselling issues come first, but chipping ones face into my mind. 67HRC are not properly expected to be very forgiving ;)
 
Ben Dale's polishing tapes can give a very sharp edge which is still decently aggressive. I had him sharpen a few test blades for me and they had the best combination of sharpness on the push and slice I have seen to date.

-Cliff
 
Cliff Stamp said:
Ben Dale's polishing tapes can give a very sharp edge which is still decently aggressive. I had him sharpen a few test blades for me and they had the best combination of sharpness on the push and slice I have seen to date.

-Cliff

Might I have a link? Please and thanks of course :)
 
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