resources on primitive american made knives

sadiejane

sadiejane

Joined
Feb 6, 2009
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have certainly learned lots about older knives since getting on this forum
(and yeah i drool over many of the photos)
and i thank ya'll for that

now i wanted to ask about other resources,
for historical information regarding american made knives.
thats my particular interest
early american made knives

including those made by native folks long before europeans arrived
it seems to be fairly well accepted at this point
that pacific northwest natives had access to metals not native to their region
as long as 1000 yrs ago
most likely from asian sea going vessels that had wrecked and washed ashore in the pnw
and of course the first thing done with metals found was make tools
but im not just interested in native tool making
but also as our country was "settled" by europeans

i have madison grants book "knives of homespun america".
and thoroughly enjoy it
also "american primitive knives and daggers 1770-1870" by gordon minnis
another excellent book.

thought maybe some of ya'll may know of other books or resources ive not stumbld upon yet.
any info shared would be much appreciated.

and of course if anyone wants to toss up some pix of yr primitive american made knives...well then we can all drool some more.
thanks
 
kidwholaughs said:
The only pre whit man culture knives that survive to present is the Ulu by the Inuit. Here is a pdf about it. http://www.oldjimbo.com/Outdoors-Magazine/The-Ulu-Knife.pdf

If you really want to see something interesting, here is a video about an unbelievable knife made in the arctic. Too incredible to believe.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bpuFeQZCvOI

God Bless
Click to expand...

Thanks so much for the link to the video. We could learn soooo much from the "savages" but we just keep killing them.

Thanks again
Robin (Metis, Cree/Scot
 
Robin, I've been reading several books about the Hudson Bay Company, and similar companies. Do you know what the Metis, and the northern tribes, carried when in the employ of the HBC? The Hudson Bay camp knife chief model (two large pins on the handle) were quite revered among the various Canadian tribes, or so I've read. Thanks.
 
Most "savages" are actually more advanced than we "civilized" people want to know. We europeans are responsible for the destruction of mayan culture, which was considered savage, yet their mathematics and astronomics were, well, I am not sure we've still reached the mayan level.

As far earliest made knives in america, very little has been recorded. Mostly what we know, various stones were used to make knives pre-european. Some stones make really mean knives, like obsidian.
 
thejamppa said:
Most "savages" are actually more advanced than we "civilized" people want to know. We europeans are responsible for the destruction of mayan culture, which was considered savage, yet their mathematics and astronomics were, well, I am not sure we've still reached the mayan level.

As far earliest made knives in america, very little has been recorded. Mostly what we know, various stones were used to make knives pre-european. Some stones make really mean knives, like obsidian.
Click to expand...

I believe that obsidian has the potential for the sharpest edge possible, I know they make scalpels from obsidian now.

Regards

Robin
 
SHS
I'm going to try this in a couple of parts, won't post for some reason.
The HBC Loved the Cree women because of their hard work and ability to create deals with other tribes and bands for the fur trade. It's hard to say what they would have used as tools and weapons, I imagine whatever the HBC was trading at the moment. Because the Native peoples of those days considered iron as a spirit many of the early tools were buried during funural rituals when the owner passed on.
 
Strange. Next part

However, here is an order from the HBC from 1683, i'm quite sure the numbers grew over the years. This is from "The fur trade in Canada" By Harold A. Innis
1000 hatchets, 1800 long knives, 900 long small knives, 1000 Rochbury large knives, 500 Rochburry small knives and 1000 jack knives.


Also from the same book
"The principal items needed by an indian for the support of his family"
Knives, awls , hatchets, guns and powder, an ice chisel, Brazil tobacco,files, flints, powder horns a bayonet, a kettle, cloth, beads and the like ;-))

Innis book if a good one if you can ever find it, another wonderful book is "Many tender ties" Women in the fur trade society 1670-1870.

Regards

Robin
 
pipeman
thanks for the book recommendations
for anyone else interested, they have both at very reasonable prices at abes books.
 
Pipeman said:
I believe that obsidian has the potential for the sharpest edge possible, I know they make scalpels from obsidian now.

Regards

Robin
Click to expand...

Can you imagine the skill necessary to wield an obsidian scalpel without chipping it out?
 
thejamppa said:
Most "savages" are actually more advanced than we "civilized" people want to know. We europeans are responsible for the destruction of mayan culture, which was considered savage, yet their mathematics and astronomics were, well, I am not sure we've still reached the mayan level.

As far earliest made knives in america, very little has been recorded. Mostly what we know, various stones were used to make knives pre-european. Some stones make really mean knives, like obsidian.
Click to expand...

Jamppa,

I have always been fascinated by tools used by native people of the world. What kind of knives do the original people of Scandinavia use? Is it the popular puuko and mora? Thanks

God Bless
 
kidwholaughs said:
Jamppa,

I have always been fascinated by tools used by native people of the world. What kind of knives do the original people of Scandinavia use? Is it the popular puuko and mora? Thanks

God Bless
Click to expand...

Hi, as far archeological diggings have been doing oldest knives have been made from silicone stone and cutting it to have wicked edge. Oldest knives still found in Scandinavia have been bronze knives during Roman period.

If I am even partially correct, the puukko was result of hundreds of years evolution, which have began in bronze age. Simple utility knife which form was commonly spread in nordic area's when Sweden started aggressively conquering its neighbours from 13th-17th century.

The Finnish puukko design is several hundred years old. Oldest puukko blades are carbon dated around 15th century if I remember correctly. The finnish soil however is very unforgiving for steels. Oldest metal made puukko has been found in swamp burial. No puukko has been made from bronze. All bronze knives found in Finland have been mostly double bladed.

The term original people of scandinavia is under debate but original northern people are Sami people and they use puukko design too. Its however slightly different than regular puukko. Its called Leuku and could be described best as Puukko style bowie or Scandinavian Bowie but design of Leuku is hundred's of years old aswell, like traditional puukko. I personally categorize Puukko's under two category: Puukko's and Leuku's. Both may seem similar but besides size difference blade shape is slightly different too. Also, leuku's blade angle is deeper than puukko's making it excellent chopper but not as good for whittling as traditional puukko.

Puukko's still are most popular edged tool in scandinavia and mora's are very widely used since they have unbeatable quality for price. Lowest price for stainless mora has been 2€'s = $3,3 USD's few years back. So mora's are most popular mass producted puukko and very likely most used and popular traditional form puukko. Though we Finn's like to debate that nobody else makes as good puukko's as Finn's Mora's are very good and as Helle. Iisakki Järvenpää and Marttiini are biggest Finnish puukko manufacturers but handmaking puukko's are very common in Finland and there are several good puukko-smith's in Finland active. So making traditional puukko in small shops involving a lot craftman ship is still strong at least in Finland.
 
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