Recommendation? Restoration advice for old Acrylic Handle Western Hunting

[RustyRick]

Howdy folks. I don't really know age and I can't find anything similar. Passed down from I think grandfather to dad to me. No idea if this was some kind of kit knife, production, converted or what. Looks like acrylic wasn't even production until the 1930's so its likely after that. I would guess pre-1950's when dad left. Purely guesswork though and possibly wrong. I looked around for catalog and searched forum a bit but found nothing obvious. If anyone has any details or perhaps link to the catalogs please share. Did the forums lose the old catalogs pre 2015? I am guessing the red X's mean the data was lost.

The pommel is loose, I think one of the spacers is missing and another is broken. It is really hard to align the handle bits back in place. Hand tightened is shown in a pic and past alignment. I would guess this is acrylic. I don't particularly love the acrylic but I can appreciate what someone did. If it is of significance I could get some black spacer material (likely g10) and try to fix. Or perhaps get leather and convert it to stacked leather. I was thinking leather may provide a little push back on the pommel holding it in place better? If I do go with acrylic I am not sure how to fix exactly. Since the bits are hard to align I would assume I would have to get them as good as I can and just re-profile the handle thinner. How do you align that pommel? Just get the spacer and sand to near exact thickness needed? Does the pommel require anything beyond torque/pressure?

I read somewhere to soak old leather (the sheath) in mineral oil for weeks to rejuvenate. Is that good advice?

Thoughts? It needs some love.

Cheers,
Rick

 

[black mamba]

From the tang stamp that should be pre-1950 mfg. Maybe a custom rehandle, that pommel doesn't look original.

 

[Hickory n steel]

Hopefully zzyzzogeton will chime in and confirm the model, I think it's a ww2 era shark model but am no expert.
The knife has definitely been rehandled, I'm thinking the clear pieces may be aircraft window lucite but I don't know if there's any way to tell the difference.

 

[afishhunter]

From the tang stamp that should be pre-1950 mfg. Maybe a custom rehandle, that pommel doesn't look original.

This ^.
My guess is the handle was originally stacked leather washers.
How is the pommel attached?
Nut? Pinned?
You can get replacement leather washers from a couple sources.
Another option if you want to be fancier is birch bark washers. Also available from a couple sources.
I'm not sure about the cost difference of leather vs birch bark.
Spacers made of fiber, metal, and buffalo horn are also availale.

Looks like a descent knife. Western made good knives. Their 1095 blades take and hold a wicked edge.
For many years Western "owned" the deer and larger hunting fields.

Good luck with your restoration/rehab.
Asfor the blade proper,Iwould only get rid of any active red rust (don't see any in the photos) and sharpen it. I would not polish it.

thesheath may not be original. Not a "ig deal" unless you're a collector.
It wasn't ad isn't unusual to replace a sheath "back in the day" or even now. Look at how many leather (and nylon canvas) sheaths are available today online at the big river site and the big auction (and related) sites.

I'd hit the sheath with saddle soap followed by mink oil, if I didn't want a new sheath.

 

[afishhunter]

Hopefully zzyzzogeton will chime in and confirm the model, I think it's a ww2 era shark model but am no expert.
The knife has definitely been rehandled, I'm thinking the clear pieces may be aircraft window lucite but I don't know if there's any way to tell the difference.

Good point! A "theater knife" is quite possible.

 

[RustyRick]

Good point! A "theater knife" is quite possible.

So dad was a marine pilot. In at '49 and flew for the service from '52-'73 ish. He actually crashed an f2h4 banshee at cherry point in the 60s. Couldn't eject below 500 ft back then so he had to ride in into the trees. I suppose it's possible someone made the handle from the window of that for him. I can ask mom if she remembers. That would be kind of cool.

 

[RustyRick]

This ^.
My guess is the handle was originally stacked leather washers.
How is the pommel attached?
Nut? Pinned?
You can get replacement leather washers from a couple sources.
Another option if you want to be fancier is birch bark washers. Also available from a couple sources.
I'm not sure about the cost difference of leather vs birch bark.
Spacers made of fiber, metal, and buffalo horn are also availale.

Looks like a descent knife. Western made good knives. Their 1095 blades take and hold a wicked edge.
For many years Western "owned" the deer and larger hunting fields.

Good luck with your restoration/rehab.
Asfor the blade proper,Iwould only get rid of any active red rust (don't see any in the photos) and sharpen it. I would not polish it.

thesheath may not be original. Not a "ig deal" unless you're a collector.
It wasn't ad isn't unusual to replace a sheath "back in the day" or even now. Look at how many leather (and nylon canvas) sheaths are available today online at the big river site and the big auction (and related) sites.

I'd hit the sheath with saddle soap followed by mink oil, if I didn't want a new sheath.

It just screws on. no pins no nothing else I can see. So if the thickness of the parts is not just right it will be rotated in a different orientation. If I can get parts tight I could blue/purple locktite. The uppermost 92?) lucite (or whatever pieces are) pieces are threaded too.

 

[dsutton24]

What a nice old knife. I think I'd just get it all lined up and Loktite the pommel back on.

 

[screened porch]

I would just insert a spacer of fiber or whatever under the pommel so it snugs up pointing the right direction.

 

[RustyRick]

Thank you everyone for the replies.

Mom does not remember the background of it. She actually thought it was Grandpas. He had a hardware store in Mass. and everyone was always bringing him things. So the mystery remains.


It turns out those black spacers are really dark green plastic(?). And the two dark pieces next to the bolster are somehow colored dark. I have some black wood about the right thickness I can use as a test fit I think. Then order something more permanent.
I did what I could by hand. Wd40 short soak and 0000 steel wool as much of the rust as I could. Its likely converted but how far do you like to go? Would you be more aggressive with sandpaper/wire wheel or just leave it? Mostly that darker area below the swedge.

 

[glennbad]

Personally, the "use" on the blade is what makes it special, IMO. Were it mine, I would only stop/remove any active rust and treat the blade. Reassemble, then you can decide to use it or put it up as a family heirloom. Nice piece!

 

[eisman]

I'd clean up the pits, they will attract rust.

The wood disks you show are too soft. You want to use a hard, dense grained, wood, if you use wood at all. Soft wood will shrink, and deform with use and humidity much more than a harder wood will. That's why ebony and cocobolo are used so often. Plus a hard wood will polish better.

I'd make a couple pieces of micarta to butt up against the metal and then use leather washers, or one solid piece of something like micarta and drill a hole down the center and use that.

 

[RustyRick]

I'd clean up the pits, they will attract rust.

The wood disks you show are too soft. You want to use a hard, dense grained, wood, if you use wood at all. Soft wood will shrink, and deform with use and humidity much more than a harder wood will. That's why ebony and cocobolo are used so often. Plus a hard wood will polish better.

I'd make a couple pieces of micarta to butt up against the metal and then use leather washers, or one solid piece of something like micarta and drill a hole down the center and use that.

Thank you. The wood disks (guitar sound holes) were actually just used to angle the picture to avoid shadows etc.

 

[Greasepiggy]

Since it’s all apart…
Maybe some Evapo Rust to get all the bad stuff off the blade? This stuff has worked wonders for me on old rusty BSA and Triumph tanks over the years, it’s environmentally friendly and smells like laundry soap! Then Renaissance Wax to protect it. Unless yer gonna use it, then mineral oil would probably be better.

 

[RustyRick]

Since it’s all apart…
Maybe some Evapo Rust to get all the bad stuff off the blade? This stuff has worked wonders for me on old rusty BSA and Triumph tanks over the years, it’s environmentally friendly and smells like laundry soap! Then Renaissance Wax to protect it. Unless yer gonna use it, then mineral oil would probably be better.

Thanks. I actually bought Evaporust some at the tractor store recently for a shed that is turning splotchy orange. I was wondering about the stuff so good to hear positive feedback. The MDS seems a bit vague on the proprietary mix. I've used wd-40 and mineral oil on the blade already a few times. I tend to use blades, though likely not as often as others, but I just don't seem to need larger fixed blades very often. I need to get some ren wax anyway. I'll add that to the list. Thanks

 

[Hickory n steel]

I would leave it.
The western blades were ( maybe not always, not sure when it started / stopped ) a chrome vanadium steel with a chrome finish, and that's what this blade appears to be.
I see corrosion but no active rust, and the only way you'd be able to get rid of that is sanding the entire blade down to fresh bare metal which is not recommended.

 

[Hengelo_77]

Looks like a theater knife, plexiglass from cockpits was used for handles, leave that history.
Give it a clean, remove rust and sharpen the knife. Don't alter the handle

 

[afishhunter]

how far do you like to go? Would you be more aggressive with sandpaper/wire wheel or just leave it?

I'd leave it. "Preserve what's there" beats "restore to look new" in my opinion.

 

[meako]

It's a special...clean and maintain handle as is..

 

[Ace Rimmer]

RustyRick I have some more information that I think may help with identification.
I have a couple of Western/Boulder G46-6 "shark" knives, and I believe this one has the same blade shape, and the sheath looks similar. I think that the sheath is original -- there seem to have been slight variations throughout the war years, and I have seen information that Western used double stitching like that. Mine are blued and the blade is about 5.5 inches long. They have the birds head pommel with lanyard hole.
Mine have the exact same patent number: 1,967,479. Mine belonged to my father, a Naval aviator in WW2.
BUT... mine have Western's unique (unique to them, I believe) split tang with "H" shaped stacked leather handles. This puzzled me for a bit until I took another, closer look at the pictures. In post #10 you can clearly see where the split tang has been cut and the round rod has been attached, probably by brazing. Also, the guard looks different -- mine appear to be steel, while yours looks like brass, and is thicker than the steel ones. Maybe it's been replaced, although I'm sure there were a lot of wartime variations depending on the availability of raw materials. One of your pictures in post #10 kind of looks like there is residual bluing on the blade.
My conclusion is that this is a heavily modified G46-6 and wow, I'll bet it has some really interesting history! Definitely a knife to be honored and treasured.