Restoring a boy-scout hatchet... re-handle questions

[REK Knives]

So this is a first for me but figure it would be a good project to do w/ the kiddos.

I found and ordered a plumb scout hatchet head from ebay, then ordered a hickory handle for it from Tenessee Hickory Products (great company btw, they custom make them I think). The only thing is that while the side to side fit of the handle in the eye is ok (only a little play that will be taken up by the wedge) the 'vertical' (i.e. front to back) play is much larger. So I was thinking about using some West Systems G-flex epoxy in there, along w/ the wedge but wanted to get opinions... I am planning on letting about 1/8 to 1/4" stick out of the top of the eye for extra holding power from what I've read.

 

[300Six]

Epoxy is rigid and brittle (perhaps the West stuff isn't) but I wouldn't bother with it. You've got lots of room to set the head back another 3/4 - 1 inch using a rasp. This will allow you to snug things up better, and then use the wood wedge (and maybe part of a second one) to fill the full length of the eye to spread and fill the front. Either throw that steel wedge away or tuck it away in your 'field repairs' kit. Because metal wedges are not used in pre-sawn kerfs they often times uncontrollably split the wood.
Leaving the handle 1/4 inch proud of the eye is smart and is something everyone should be doing! Allows you to drive the wedge in further or retrieve it via carefully excising around it enough to grab it with vice-grips.
Cute little hatchet by the way, and the BSA stamp will ensure that few folks will ever treat this implement as expendable/disposable! The Plumb stamp has square corners instead of rounded which might just help to determine the vintage.

 

[Agent_H]

Those are nice little hatchets. I've not epoxied a handle but have removed them with it in them.

In one of your pictures of the underside of it the eye looks to not "settle" completely on the shoulder of the handle. I wonder if you might be able to drop the head some more? If that holds the handle solidly then you can buy/make a wider wedge that will fill it front to back and eliminate that gap - if that one shown is only the width of the handle and not the eye of your hatchet. Then you could epoxy if it seems necessary. Epoxy first, no going back. More fitting first, epoxy is optional.

One of the other perks of dropping the head down some might be that you can have the amount of handle over the eye how you want it while also eliminating the turning hole, if that is what it's called, in the end when trimming the extra. The hole isn't a problem and can be packed with the dust you make while dropping the head lower. Dust and BLO packed in - it looks a lot like the rest of the wood and dries pretty hard - not epoxy hard though. That I learned here by asking.

Some really beautiful handles have those holes deeper than the head can be lowered.

I have had good luck with Tennessee Hickory Products, Plumb scout hatchets are always great.
Seems like quality materials to start with.

Bet that turns out really nice!

 

[Hacked]

I'll third the suggestion to set the head a bit lower on the handle. Once the bottom of the eye is snug you should be able to make it work. I would ensure the wedge is the length of the eye, to the point that the wedge shaves off at the front where the eye is narrow when driven into the kerf. This will help to ensure a snug fit. I think I would also try to use a fat wedge to fill in some of the extra space which means cutting the kerf a bit deeper might be a good idea. And like 300 said toss that metal wedge in the bin and leave about a 1/4" of the handle sitting above the head. It will swell over the top of the eye keeping the head in place even if it becomes loose, and gives you better options for repair if it does.

BTW I've been looking at Tennessee Hickory, do you just order over the phone? How are their prices / shipping if you don't mind me asking? I wasn't sure if they even did small orders so that's good to know.

 

[cityofthesouth]

Yup, there is a ton of shoulder on that stick that can go. Looks to me like there is a little kink in the eye which may be to blame for that little gap on the side. Not a big thing, but may make it that much harder to get it 100% tight.

 

[RTDoug]

What they said.
Take your time and set that head deeper. Just guessing, it looks like it may come down quite a way. That might fill more of the voids as you work down.

 

[Hickory n steel]

Definitely do what has been suggested and seat it down further to the shoulder, and use a wider wedge, as the included one doesn't fill the eye.
I'd recommend not using epoxy as it is problematic down the line . Besides chipping and flaking out which can get it loose , when the handle eventually needs replacing it makes it a lot harder.
Without epoxy on a handle, it can simply be sawn off and knocked out the top with a drift ( carve broken handle till it can fit through ). An epoxied handle will need to be drilled and busted out.
If you feel you absolutely need the epoxy then use it because after all it's your tool, but seriously epoxy sucks for this. The first time I hung my great grandfather's old axe I used epoxy since the hang wasn't the best but it eventually cracked and chipped out , it made the handle a pain in the ads to remove. the next handle turned out to be a bad one , and even though the hang was much tighter it was easier to remove by simply drifting it out the top.

 

[REK Knives]

Man I knew you guys wouldn't let me down!! All the suggestions are FANTASTIC so thanks!!

Yes you are all correct in that the wedge does not span the entire gap, so I will try to pick up another one. Does anyone know where I could get one? I actually have some seasoned hickory here I use for my smoker, so I could cut/sand it down to shape, but would I need to do anything special to it? Or can I just pick it up at a local hardware store?

Another question I have is: Do I just drive the wedge in there and call it a day or use some glue/epoxy to hold the wedge in? Or that metal bit across the wedge? This guy looks like he uses glue in the kerf and has some good practical advise, what do you all think?

I'll third the suggestion to set the head a bit lower on the handle. Once the bottom of the eye is snug you should be able to make it work. I would ensure the wedge is the length of the eye, to the point that the wedge shaves off at the front where the eye is narrow when driven into the kerf. This will help to ensure a snug fit. I think I would also try to use a fat wedge to fill in some of the extra space which means cutting the kerf a bit deeper might be a good idea. And like 300 said toss that metal wedge in the bin and leave about a 1/4" of the handle sitting above the head. It will swell over the top of the eye keeping the head in place even if it becomes loose, and gives you better options for repair if it does.

BTW I've been looking at Tennessee Hickory, do you just order over the phone? How are their prices / shipping if you don't mind me asking? I wasn't sure if they even did small orders so that's good to know.

Yeah call them over the phone... I can't speak to all their prices or if they will ever change, but the handle I got was $9 plus about $10 for shipping (they use Fedex only) but on the plus side, they got it here very quick. I think they custom make them to your order, so don't be afraid to specify if you want the part that goes in the eye larger so you can custom fit it! Basically you order, they send you an invoice in a few days, then you can call and pay and they ship it out.

 

[REK Knives]

Oh and would something like this work for the BLO/Sawdust method?

 

[300Six]

I make my own wedges. To me the angle on store bought ones is too steep. Sometimes these can work themselves loose because of that. If it doesn't fill the full length of the eye that's no biggie; stick an edge tapered partial one in next to it to fill in the void. If you glue the wedge you will not be able to withdraw it nor be able to drive it in further at a later date. Thoroughly rough it up across the grain to create a friction fit. Manufacturers use yellow poplar for wedges (which is softer and compressible) and many here use hardwood wedges that are of a softer material than the handle itself. Apparently heads have been known to crack or split if you drive in a really hard wedge with brute force.
Good luck!

 

[Agent_H]

Thank you for the Tennessee Hickory Products experience so far.

For your wedge, you could try Ace Hardware. Our Home Depots don't carry anything wedge related.
If you are near an Ace Hardware you can go there and look near where they have their axes. Some of them have little packages wit a wooden wedge + metal one for sale.

The Aces we have here have their loose/bulk hardware in small bins or drawers and they have a section that has individual wooden and metal wedges.

Buy one for an axe then cut or split it to size for your hatchet. That way you are sure to have enough.

That Boiled Linseed Oil you want to order looks like the right stuff - it will work. Or you can get some if you go to get a larger wedge. You might end up with much more than you need for one project if you do the Home Depot or Ace route for the oil.

If you get the head fitted and your wooden wedge in there right you shouldn't need a metal wedge - that is just personal preference.

Oh, another route if you want to shape your own wedge and want minimal issues, stop by a grocery store like Winco, Kroger, etc and pick up a plank used for cooking fish in the seafood section.

$2.50 or so and you can make several wedges. Cherry looks good.

 

[Hickory n steel]

If I were you I'd make a wedge out of a piece of wood scrap.( softer woods are ideal ) And don't use glue, just oil it so it drives in nice and tight.
As far as a step wedge, you should use a medium sized one and put it diagonally across the wooden wedge.

 

[300Six]

If I were you I'd make a wedge out of a piece of wood scrap.( softer woods are ideal ) And don't use glue, just oil it so it drives in nice and tight.
As far as a step wedge, you should use a medium sized one and put it diagonally across the wooden wedge.

Hang on there! Many manufacturers do this (install a small steel step wedge) ostensibly to lock the wood wedge in place whereas European hangs often use hollow conical wedges for similar effect. I suspect this is more out of insurance liability concerns than physical necessity. A metal wedge often cracks or splits the wood and you really don't want this to happen. On top of that re-hanging or re-setting a handle that has metal in it is more difficult than dealing with all wood.
What is becoming more common (within this forum anyway) is cross wedging (ie forming an X) with wood wedges in pre-sawn kerfs and that certainly is something to consider.

 

[Hacked]

Making a new one is probably easier than trying to hunt one down. Softer wood is better as it's been stated, other than that it doesn't have to be anything fancy. No glue or step wedge is needed. If you do it right you shouldn't have problems. My first hang has a few years on it now, it has neither and has never given me a problem.

 

[FortyTwoBlades]

Don't use a metal wedge unless you've already hung the head securely and the wood has decided to shrink a little. The wooden wedge should be getting you as close to the mark as possible and a metal one only being used to pick up the slack if the head loosens post-fitting without the wooden wedge backing out.

 

[Square_peg]

I've had very good luck with wedges made of elm and London plane but I think a medium hard wood would do as well. Coat the wedge and kerf with DPG immediately before driving the wedge. Drive the wedge just slightly short of where it's going to stop (only experience tells you when this is). Let it sit for a couple days then cut off the wedge flush. With a wide punch made of flat steel stock (a scrap of leaf spring?) drive the wedge that last 1/8" till it stops. If you've done it right the haft will protrude 1/4" past the eye and the wedge will stop 1/8" below the top of the haft. Then hit it with DPG again. The ends of the haft will swell over the top of the wedge locking it permanently in place.

 

[Hacked]

Don't use a metal wedge unless you've already hung the head securely and the wood has decided to shrink a little. The wooden wedge should be getting you as close to the mark as possible and a metal one only being used to pick up the slack if the head loosens post-fitting without the wooden wedge backing out.

I've yet to have one come loose, but my plan in that given scenario is to drive the current wedge in a bit further. It's one of the benefits of leaving the handle proud of the eye. As long as you didn't bottom out the wedge when you set it initially you should be able to drive it in a bit further to tighten things up in the field. If I was at my shop I would drill out the wooden wedge and replace it with a new wider one. Again an easier task with the handle proud of the eye and definitely without those darn metal wedges. Basically anything to avoid using a metal wedge, after suffering through removing enough of them and seeing the damage they do I flat out refuse to use one on my axes.