Resuscitating an Old Timer 80T

D

doctorfrog

Joined
Jul 15, 2005
Messages
2
Hi all,

I have this Old Timer pocket knife my father gave to me when I was a kid. I spent a lot of time finding things to cut shortly afterward. Naturally, it has a good deal of sentimental value. After using the knife for a while, the blades started to develop rust, which I have never been able to remove. As a kid, the rust worried me, and instead of continuing to use the knife, I carefully put it into a plastic bag and into a drawer, where it sat for many years.

Well, nostalgia is nice and all, but I think I'd be doing better by the knife by actually using it and taking care of it, starting with repairing whatever damage it has. I've searched the web for general advice, but have gotten a lot of conflicting information (WD40 is great/WD40 is the devil, etc.). Also, given that this is not stainless steel, some advice specific to this metal might be needed.

Some images are available here:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/doctorfrog/26178393/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/doctorfrog/26178390/

So, my questions are:
How do I go about removing this rust? With what products?
What should I use to clean/lubricate/sharpen the knife?
Am I better off returning this to its plastic bag, and just getting a stainless steel knife?

Thanks for any advice you can give, and accept my apologies if I did not search this forum thoroughly enough.

--doctorfrog
 
Welcome, Doctor. Your knife doesn't look all that bad. WD40 won't help, but some good old oil will. There are some pretty specific things you would not do with a genuine antique/collectible knife that folks here could tell you about, but all you want to do is make this a decent user. Easy.

Oil down the blades and let them set a while. Oil the joints and work them.
Wipe off as much of the rust as you can with a rag. If you need to use a little steel wool (I like SOS pads), that is fine.

Remove enough rust so it won't dirty your hands and pocket and you'll have a grand old user knife, that proudly shows it's age. You don't really wanna make it look brand new, do ya? A fine campanion for the rest of your life. Probably a lot of what you see is just 'patina' which developes on carbon steel blades, and is kinda a natural rust inhibiter. Some of us do things to speed up the patina process.

Carbon steel sharpens easily. A whetstone would do fine. Or an inexpensive diamond grit sharpener. There will be instructions with it, but basically just 'cut' into the stone at about a 20 degree angle. Equal strokes on each side.

Probably be some other advice coming.

Phil
 
Welcome,

I second Phil's comments, also take a look at the inside of the knife, the inside of the springs may be rusty, I use a folded pipe cleaner and light machine oil or mineral oil for these.

Three basic rules of knife maintenance: keep it clean, keep it dry, keep it sharp.

Luis
 
The blades dont look too bad. The spotting is called peppering. Very common with older carbon blades. You wont get rid of them but a polish will lessen their apperance. A patina feels like a coating on the steel and we talk about using apples and such to put a even patina on the blades. Like the Don says get the inside really cleaned out. Rust forms where the brass and steel meet. Use a mild cleaner/polish like flitz or brasso to kill the rust. Time and elbow grease. The flitz will bring the bolsters back to a nice luster. Oil the joints. Wax the blades if your going to store or display it.
My 2 cents..
TTYL
Larry
 
I just restored a 61OT that looked similar, but not quite as rusted. I took Tripoli on a cloth wheel and polished the steel and back springs. You have to be careful not to let the steel get hot. Just use a slow turning wheel (like on a drill, not on a high speed dremmel) and work it patiently.

Vintage 8OTs rule. Mine is early 1970's vintage and has the match strike nail nick.
 
I don't mind the look of what is growing on the blade, provided that it isn't something that indicates damage to the blade. Frankly, I'd prefer the knife look like it has been used and loved. So, if this 'peppering' is simply the emergence of a patina, I'm not too concerned with removing it, just protecting the metal as long as I can. By the way, the spotting on the blades does not come off on my hands or on cloth.

So, if I'm interpreting the advice so far correctly, I don't need to polish the blades to a mirror finish, and the spotting so far is natural, even protective. I just need to get some lubricating oil for the joints, a protective oil to clean the blades periodically, and a brass cleaner for the brassy bits, and I've got a friend for life. Sound about right?
 
That knife looks good to me. I have brought back from the grungy many knives that looked a lot worse. And without really doing anything to the steel or nickle silver fittings. First, I clean the thing completely inside and out. I try not to use water, since it will get into the spaces you cannot reach and be very slow to dry back out. I like using a very light oil, like a clear penetrating oil. Then I rub off the acumilation of finger oils (they have acids and can cause those pepper spots), and go to my car polishing compounds. Using a white terry cloth dish towl, red compound, then with a clean rag, white compound. Seldom have I had to resort to heavier abrasives and a buffer or dremmel motor. Just rub and wipe while I watch a movie. You will be surprised how much of what you think is rust is just crud on the surface. When it its looking pretty good, take a fingernail brush and clean out the crevases around the shield, the jigging in the handle, and the spaces between the liners and the scales. The polishing compound will have been left there by the rag. Now admire your work and put the knife up. The next time you take it out, work another small spot with the white compound. In this fashion you will make it look near mint without reducing the metal at all. The white compound is mainly wax with a very fine abrasive, so it will leave a protective wax coating. Carbon knives I treated this way over two years ago and never oiled look great in my wall display. I bought some for $15 - 20 because they were nasty, and I figured to make them users. After this work, they are nearly as nice as the ones beside them in mint condition. For users, drench them liberally with oil though (after adding a protective patina if that is your choice...I like patina), as the wax does not penetrate the metal like oil does. Wax may coat the surface, but not the pores (yes, steel is porous). And don't store them in plastic bags, or other "airtight" containers. Guns and knives will rust if you do this.

Sorry for repeating and rambling. Hope one sentence here helps you.

Codger
 
I think you've got it, Doctor. We're very flattered that you brought your Schrade question to us. Thank you!
Phil
 
I have been thinking about this thread since I posted above. That knife just needed a little bit of TLC. But what about a rusty knife? I mean a really rusty one?

About six months ago I went on a hunt for a Mountain Lion. A Schrade 160OT Mountain Lion fixed blade knife. LT, Larry, Phil and the other Schradeophiles here helped me learn a bit about them and enjoyed the chase with me. Not really a rare knife, but more uncommon then the 15OT and 165OT. After watching a few auctions go to the moon, I finally found a good user, then shortly a NIB fell into my lap at nearly the same price. Then a third, as yet undisclosed blade came my way. Call it an Ebay "oops". So a third unneeded knife joined my boxes. At only $20.00, it wasn't a big deal, so it was soon forgotten.

I pulled it out today to really look it over for the first time. What had appeared to be a layer of deep patina and crud on the blade was actually a very evenly distributed layer of rust that the P.O. had hit with a wire brush to darken and make the flake rust look flat and shiney.

I did what I am loathe to do and went after the blade with 3M 320 grit sandpaper, following the verticle direction of the original crocus finish on my mint knife. After thirty minutes, I had raised a cloud of orange dust that reminded me of Larry's 152OTO. I still stayed away from the dremmel tool though, so maybe I took longer than was needed to clean it down to metal. I still haven't bought the scotch-brite wheel for my grinder that LT recommended.

Then I went through my red, then white compounds, cleaned the brass and nickle silver, and used the fingernail brush. I won't say that the blade finish is as new, but it has gone from very poor to very excellent. And it awaits the application of a nice patina then oil. It is actually now a nicer user than the one I first won. And if I cared to put the crocus finish on it, it would rival the new knife....assuming I can hold the blade straight and do an even finish.

Another fine old Schrade with a new lease on life! It is fixed! :D

Codger
 
Was there any pitting on the blade when you removed the 1st layer of rust?
It's such a horrible thing to clean the muck and crap out of a knife handle and then find that the blade(s) are all pitted and channeled because of the rust. I have not used a sandpaper or a course grit on the buffer being afraid of removing too much metal. But you do have much more metal to play with on a fixed blade like that 165.

TTYL
LArry
 
The first user knife I mentioned did have channeling and cleaned pits. This one had, underneath the rust, smooth metal. Yes, there is a bit more metal there to play with. But with the fine paper, I just removed the oxidation. The crocus marks are gone, but otherwise, it was none the worse for the sanding. And the 320 grit is fine enough (have to keep it clean) that it doesn't leave scratches. I was very surprised to find no pits under such a thick layer of rust. And a not-too-bad lightly sharpened edge. Usually when a knife is neglected so, the owner has not been kind to the cutting edge. This one cleaned up nicely. After a final touchup, it should be hair splitting sharp.

I have surprised myself with ugly user knives before. Remember the Tejas pig hunter's Ellenville 165UH? It looks almost as good as my mint Walden 165UH now. Several of my 165's and 15OT's that were bought as users have turned out too nice to keep out of the frame. Hey folks, don't ignore those used dogs out there! That is where the real deals lurk!

Codger
 
I used kerosene on a blade once, and it did a pretty good job of removing the outer layer of gunk. I have also had some success with WD40, when used to remove powdery red rust from higher carbon content knives and tools, without using abrasive techniques. Neither removes black oxide (the patina) or pepper spots, but they do help if you don't want to risk abrasives.
For smooooothing out the patina, I've found that microwaving apple cider vinegar and submersing the blade, speeds up a gray/black/blue patina on 1095 or such higher carbon content steels.

YMMV.

Bill
 
Well Larry,
I can't help you with your mileage on your "Buggy".....but I bet your headLAMPS work just fine at night..... :D

Bill
 
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