Retaining etch on Damascus???

DanGraves

DanGraves

Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider
Joined
Mar 5, 2006
Messages
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Here is a letter I got from a client after he got a knife made with 1080, 1095, 15n20 and nickel. I would like to know what can be used to keep that dark finish without this problem.

"I had a client sporting clay shoot yesterday afternoon and the package came in just as I was leaving. I took it with me and opened it up in front of a bunch of my customers. Wow, it was everything you said and then some! The craftsmanship is unbelievable and it sure got a lot of tongues wagging. Unfortunately, I am absolutely sick this morning because I feel like I might have ruined it on the first day that I got it. As it was getting passed around to all these sweaty guys that had just finished shooting, I noticed everyone was touching the blade as they inspected it. I should have said something right then and there, but I didn’t. I figured I would just wipe it down when I got home to keep it from having rusted fingerprints on it. Well, that’s what I did (with RemOil) and all the beautiful black finish started coming off. Now I am just sick about doing that because the contrast is far less than what it was when it came in. Is there anything that can be done to restore that look?
"

I sent it to him coated in oil and had not rubbed it hard myself as the dark contrast does get removed. I know how to re-etch to get the contrast back but is there a coating that can be put on the blade that will stay on and keep the oxidation from rubbing off? Anyone know how to retain it? Thanks in advance.
 
I typically boil the damascus after the final etch or douse it with acetone and let it dry. I have read that this helps set the etch and it appears to work. Maybe he could use cold blue solution or paste to redarken the blade and hit the high spots with some very high grit paper to get the shine back on the 15n20.
 
The above will work. What I have begun to do is etch deep and black parkerize the blade in stead of just boiling it. This deposits hard oxides on the blade that will hold up really well under normal use and provides a bit of corrosion resistance to the valleys. I do several series of this process and can actually bring the oxides up to the surface and provide a really smooth blade.
 
Chuck-
A short WIP on your process would be a wonderful thing - if you have the time and inclination.

Thanks,

Bob
 
Like many, I use a baking soda and water solution to neutralize any acid after the etch.To get a harder more attatched coating I will leave the blade in this solution for several hours and even over night. I remove the blade or parts and wipe them softly. I then librally oil, not WD40, the blade or parts and leave them for another few hours. This little procedure will harden the oxide an allow handling of the blade or parts. you can even go over the pieces with Renisance wax as you please without damaging the surface. Frank
 
Thanks guys. Chuck, I would also like to see how this is done.
 
I boil the blade in a water/baking soda solution for about 20 minutes, that sets the oxide so it hardens and neutralizes any residual acid, then I rinse it under hot water, dry it and oil it (usually with Hoppes #9 gun grease) and the oxide stays put even with hard use

-Page
 
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Thanks Frank, I found that info very usefull. i have had the same question as the OP on my mind.
Frank Niro said:
Like many, I use a baking soda and water solution to neutralize any acid after the etch.To get a harder more attatched coating I will leave the blade in this solution for several hours and even over night. I remove the blade or parts and wipe them softly. I then librally oil, not WD40, the blade or parts and leave them for another few hours. This little procedure will harden the oxide an allow handling of the blade or parts. you can even go over the pieces with Renisance wax as you please without damaging the surface. Frank
Click to expand...
 
some folks just use brass black- I haven't played with it so I don't know what the prep would be.
 
Some folks use black baking lacquer and sand off the tops of the ridges leaving the black in the valleys.
 
I am still trying to figure out what I can do for a knife already together as on the one my client wrote about in my first post. Any suggestions?
 
Dan,

I had to repair the finish on a knife I messed up on marking. I sanded the blade back down to 600 grit again and removed most of the previous pattern. I masked the guard and part of the handle with clear nail polish (any color would do) taking care at the joint between the blade and guard making sure I did not get any on the blade. If you used stainless on the guard you would not need the mask. Then etched as usual. Since the blade was short I was able to parkerize it by holding it in the solution right up to the guard. It was tedious but I was able to save the project and did not have to tear it apart. So if you have a container deep enough you should be able to re-finish the knife.
 
Oh after I finished the blade I removed the nail polish with acetone and sanded all the fixtures and handle again with 1500 grit then waxed the whole thing with paste wax for the final finish. I marked the blade and sharpened it ready to go.
 
Great. Thanks Chuck. I was hoping for something like that.
 
Frank,
I am going to try it your way for sure. Thanks.
 
Dan, I read a real old WIP post of Kevin Casen's about a sword that he was making. After etching and final finish he put the blade back in the oven for 1 hr @ 400 deg. said that would set the black real hard for a long lasting dark finish.
Now I am almost sure of the time & temp but you might want to check it out. The WIP post was on this forum--2002--2003 maybe.
Jerry
 
Another good idea. I am going to try the baking soda in the morning and may bake it as well. Thanks guys for all the great tips.
 
Thanks Page, used your method tonight and it worked great. Seems to be very steadfast. My projects came out looking excellent.
 
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