Retired makers - prices up or down?

Joss

Joss

Joined
Nov 20, 2001
Messages
7,353
All,

I sometimes see mention in knife retailer that "...this maker is retired and therefore this piece cannot be replicated blablabla...". I've always found this was a silly spiel. To me, a retired maker is a maker who is going to fade from collectors' minds. Same thing applies to makers who are deceased. Of course, there are a few exceptions (Jim Schmidt, Bill Moran, etc), but the vast majority of makers don't live much of an imprint once they move on, apart maybe for hard core enthusiasts.

I'm curious what you guys think...

Thanks,

Joss
 
Sometimes you wouldn't want the knives to be replicated.

As far as I am concerned, it all depends on the makers. A small percentage of makers will see an marked increase in the price of their knives after retirement or death. In some cases there will be small increases, or the prices will be maintained. In a great many cases the prices will go down.
 
There was a long period of time where VERY few people wanted a Scagel. San Francisco knives(Will & Finck, Price) used to be gotten (in the '70's and 80's) for about 10% of what they cost now.

These are just some examples.

There has been no hotness of the knives of Corbet Sigman, lately, but that may change.

I have friends who are knowledgeable collectors who think that Moran knives in 10-30 years will be where Scagels are at now.

No one knows how high Loveless knives will go when he retires, it gives me chills just to think about it.

These makers, I think, are just a few that, will continue to be sought after:

1. Bagwell
2. Bartrug
3. Cronk
4. Gaston
5. Hanson(Royal)
6. Maragni
7. Maringer
8. McBurnette
9. Schmidt
10. Valachovic

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson
 
I believe it all depends on the maker.
Generally, one who makes good knives, is well liked, promotes himself and knifemaking will most likely maintain or see increased interest after he retires.
However a maker that casually produces average knives and is satisfied to just get by will most likely fade quickly after he stops making knives if not before.
 
Joss: Alas, some of what you say is true. Kudos to the dealer who does his best to promote deceased makers work, though. :D

Makers who may 'survive':

Blue-chip knives; Jimmy Lile, Bob Ogg
Folder makers: Frank Potter, Ralph Selvidio, Richard Hodgson,
Artistic knives: Warenski, Rigney, Imel, Hale (still producing slowly)
(Do I think there will be a rush on Hill Pearce? No way. Too unknown.)

STeven, I am a rookie, apparently. There are five names in your list that I would not recognize a single knife from them, if shown to me: Bartrug, Hanson, Maragni, Maringer, Valochovic. Either their work is held tightly in collections, or I simply have overlooked them. I don't dismiss that they will uphold in value, but their production numbers have to be small (Like HP's work?) Not a barb, just a comment.

As always it points towards being an innovator or unique stylist, and having a solid reputation.

I have ALL the Knives Annuals. (I need to read them more, eh, Steven?) The pages are filled with quality work that will languish in return, if sold. Many, many, unknowns. As long as those makers whose work does not increase in value currently have made the past owners and themselves happy, it's been a good foundation for our craft.

Good thread.

Coop
 
Is Jimmy Fikes retired ?
Haven't heard from him since he hurt his back during his move.
Just Emailed him,see if he replies.

Doug
 
There are some deceased makers like Bill Moran and Buster Warenski who had attained a status while they were still alive and making knives similar to what Picasso did in his lifetime as far as the prices of their work. I see that now with Ron Gaston and a few others. How pricey are the Scagels these days? A Plain Jane Moran skinner or hunter from the Lime Kiln days goes for $4-5k today. Can't imagine that anyone still alive or recently deceased would be in that range other than maybe Bob Loveless. I'm not sure what 3rd and 4th generation D.E Henry bowie knives go for, but I am almost afraid to find out. How much is a plain stag carbon steel Bagwell bowie going for these days? I have one and would like to know for insurance purposes, etc.
 
Coop, I still collect the work of Hugh Bartrug and Wayne Valachovi, both are retired ABS Mastersmiths. Bartrug made really artistic knives and Valachovic was one of the early damascus folder makers. I believe that both makers work has held their value. Jim Treacy


Bartrug2.jpg


BartrugPearlBowiecopy.jpg


Abalone.jpg


LargeValachovicDamascusandIvory.jpg


CFF_742.jpg
 
SharpByCoop said:
STeven, I am a rookie, apparently. There are five names in your list that I would not recognize a single knife from them, if shown to me: Bartrug, Hanson, Maragni, Maringer, Valochovic.
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Coop - check your Weyer books. Both Bartrug and Maringer are regularly featured. Maringer made swords and medieval weaponry, but all in SS with a very hi tech look. He made a specialty of metal-wire wrapped handles. Very clean work. Bartrug is harder to describe but very recognizable - I think you'd like him. He was one of the first maker to regularly use Mokume.

Here's a site with Maringer's work:
http://www.shirepost.com/Cutlery.html
He's got links to his work. Wow, in fact, as a retired maker, he's got a better site than most active makers...

With this said, I have no idea who Maragni is... :confused:
 
Joss said:
With this said, I have no idea who Maragni is... :confused:
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Dan Maragni, one of the conspiritors of the New England Bladesmith's Guild, absolute mad-genius, and an early (1980's) maker of classy damascus, highly sought after by those that KNOW! His stuff is NOT discounted on the aftermarket, but as in all things, PIECE first, MAKER second, PRICE, last;)

jdm61 said:
How pricey are the Scagels these days?
Click to expand...

Around $20,000 to $40,000 for a good one. Nordic Knives sold a Scagel Barbecue fork about 2 years ago for $3,500.

The San Francisco Knives in good condition are bringing between $50,000 to $125,000 a PIECE!


Best Regards,

STeven Garsson
 
Kohai999 said:
Dan Maragni, one of the conspiritors of the New England Bladesmith's Guild, absolute mad-genius, and an early (1980's) maker of classy damascus, highly sought after by those that KNOW! His stuff is NOT discounted on the aftermarket, but as in all things, PIECE first, MAKER second, PRICE, last;)



Around $20,000 to $40,000 for a good one. Nordic Knives sold a Scagel Barbecue fork about 2 years ago for $3,500.

The San Francisco Knives in good condition are bringing between $50,000 to $125,000 a PIECE!


Best Regards,

STeven Garsson
Click to expand...
I saw a couple of San Fran knives for sale a little while back. One Price and 2 Will and Fincks. All three were plain Jane Users. The Price was $10,000 and the W & F's were around $7000 each. I read that a couple of very fancy Price knives with the metal sheaths sold for $135,000 recently and that was a record for an modern knife. I'm not sure if the '06 board knife set a record for a Moran knife, but I know that even before he died, a damascus ST23 would have fetched somewhere over $20k. No telling what a unique piece like the "meteorite" knife would bring today.
 
jdm61 said:
I saw a couple of San Fran knives for sale a little while back. One Price and 2 Will and Fincks. All three were plain Jane Users. The Price was $10,000 and the W & F's were around $7000 each.
Click to expand...

1. I was referencing the really desireable class of San Francisco knives, the ones that you ONLY see at auction, I should have made that clear.

2. The problem with the San Francisco knives as explained to me, is that there are an awful lot of fakes rolling around, even from some fairly reputable dealers. This is not an area that I have any interest or direct experience in, was just responding to your question.

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson
 
jdm61 said:
I read that a couple of very fancy Price knives with the metal sheaths sold for $135,000 recently and that was a record for an modern knife. I'm not sure if the '06 board knife set a record for a Moran knife, .
Click to expand...

Yes, the very upper end, early San Frans are fetching big bucks. You have to really know the game to safely participate. :eek:
Jerry will forge the Board Knife this year. It will be a big Southwest Bowie.
 
Thanks Coop for mentioning Hodgson his artisanship innovation and engineering genius are now being reflected in his market value..prices will continue to soar for the relatively few pieces available
 
Nobody mentioned another deceased maker whose knives are very collectible.....Bo Randall. I know that Randall is a slightly different case seeing that they are arguably "semi-production." There are a lot of them floating around out there BUT there are a LOT of people who collect both the old and current ones. In my opinion, Randalls have become kind of like Winchester firearms in the collectors market. They have MAJOR name recognition even among people who have little or no interest in knives as collectables. In many cases, a Randall may not only be the only "custom" knife that some people own, but possibly the only brand that they have ever seen or even heard of.
 
There was a time that Bo made all his knives himself. Those knives are very collectable, and worth a great deal of money.
 
I don't know about others, but GW Stone, Ralph Bone, Don Hastings, Jimmy Lile and a lot of others will allways hold a special place for me. Their designs and workmanship will allways be treasured. No, they weren't "fad" makers but their great designs and workmanship will allways be classic. I love em all.
 
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