Returned Knife

H

Harry Jensen

Joined
Oct 10, 1998
Messages
224
Fellow Knifemakers-
I just received one of my blades back in the mail from an unhappy customer.

It is a 5" utility knife, with desert ironwood handle,rabbet tang, D2 tool steel satin finished (no guard or bolster). Handle secured with shaft epoxy and brass pins thru the stub tang.

Customer notified me by e-mail that the handle was separating & I told him to ship it back....thought that I'd possibly not cleaned the juncture well enough with acetone, or erred in the mix of resin/hardener.

Knife arrived yeaterday, covered in rust with pits literally 1/64th" in depth. T he handle is separating, and it appears that oils on the surface of the wood have been leached out. I'm guessing, but I think the knife was left in a sinkfull of water for an extended time (causing the handle to swell & natural oils to leach), and then left to set out on a wet drainboard for several days (which would explain the depth of the pitting).

The customer was made fully aware that D2 is NOT stainless, and was instructed in the proper care of this knife in order to avoid rust. Soaking a wood handled knife for an extended time should be a given NO-NO, I would think.
I wrote asking him some questiions regarding how the knife was cared for, and am wondering if this has happened to you (or even if it's just a hypothetical,) how did/would you handle it?

Harry Jensen
 
Tough call Harry. My instinct would be to send him his money back, since repairing the knife will likely lead to the same thing happening again. Obviously the guy has no respect for tools. I had a customer leave a blade in a leather sheath he was wet forming for 2 days. Even though it was ATS, it rusted pretty badly. But he confessed he screwed up and offered to pay for repairs.

Some customers aren't worth having. Too bad.

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Jerry Hossom
www.hossom.com
 
If the customer was made fully aware of the properties of the steel and how to maintain it and the handle then the problem is his and not yours. You could offer to remake the knife at his expense or have him return the knife for a refund.
That's still a tough call.
 
A lot times when you give someone instructions, they go in one ear and out the other. In this case I would send the guy his money back and feel good about doing it. Some people just don't deserve to have nice things since obviously they can't take care of them. I would rather sell something to someone who will appreciate it than to some dolt who won't. Just my thoughts.

Marcel

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Being a collector instead of a maker, I can give you a customer's opinion. Return his money and mark it down as a loss. He isn't worth the extra effort or future problems. A good customer knows how to treat a knife and if he ruins it he knows it is his fault. His type isn't going to improve even if you send him a second knife.

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It's never too late to have a happy childhood!
Terill Hoffman Knife Photography http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumIndex?u=243110&a=1810458
 
Well, guys I have to take a different point of view. That kind of customer is not worth it to me. Harry, I had the exact thing happen to me with the same results when a knife was left in a sink of dirty dishes, soaking in water during the customer's vacation. I offered to repair the knife and quoted the customer a price. They were not happy and thought the knife should be replaced for free. I refused. The customer had been supplied with knife care instructions, in writing and had ignored those guidelines. Did I lose a customer, you bet. I will stand by my workmanship but I will not be held hostage to someone elses negligence.

Fox
 
From a buyers viewpoint,I think this customer does not deserve any leeway from you.He screwed up and does not deserve his money back and should not expect you to fix his mistake.However, in the real world, this customer will whine and gripe and b-tch and moan and hope you will fix the knife just to make him go away.Sometimes we all have to bite the bullet or the blade and take a stand for what we know is right.
 
Harry,

Even though it goes against the grain to be raked throught the coals by someone who doesn't appreciate all your efforts to make them a special heirloom to be passed from them to their kids and grandkids, it is best business practices to just give them their money back and take the loss.

Case in point: IF you refuse to fix the knife even though they were told how to take care of it, THEY WILL TELL EVERYONE THEY KNOW just how sorry of a person you are. Even with you having every right to refuse because of THEIR refusal to take the proper steps in maintaning their knife, you will ultimately look bad to all they tell. Of course those people they tell won't hear the straight of the situation, but, as a business man (and that is what all knifemakers are)you will run the risk of possibly loosing future customers if you refuse to go above and beyond what is expected of you. And if this person just happens to be friends to the right people, it could even be catastrophic to your business.

My advice would be to consider ALL the pros and cons before deciding to refuse paying a refund. Sometimes it's just better to pay his money back with a smile.
smile.gif
Then when you are alone, get as mad
mad.gif
as you want, just don't let anyone else know.

Jerks will always be jerks, and this guy is a t-total, 1st class jerk. But sometimes it's good business to just give the jerk their money back and never do business with them again.

At least that's my thinking anyway.
smile.gif


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Craig Blankenship
Blankenship Knives
http://www.blankenship-knives.com
 
As has been said, tough call.

If you don't send his money back, then you will have to send the knife back to him. If you are like me, I wouldn't want a knife that looks like that, with my name on it, in circulation, even though you didn't cause it. People he shows it to won't know the whole story.

Send him a refund and chalk it up to a bad experience.

We've all had that happen. If you are a maker and say you haven't, just hang on. A customer like that is out there and has your name in mind for his next knife.
 
Well some said its a tough call. I beg to differ, it is not really that tough of a call when you consider your options.

It is obvious this guy is a moron and does not deserve to have one of your fine creations. There are those kinds out there and if you haven't had one yet, like the others said, you will sooner or later.

My father told me many years ago there are to rules to business. (I think he stole the saying from someone else but it is still a good one)

Rule #1: The customer is always right!

Rule #2: When the customer is wrong refer to rule number one!

Give the clown his money back because if you don't make him happy he will bad mouth you to everyone he can and you will lose more that way then you will by giving him the money back.

And if he has the gall to ask you to make another knife for him after all this, kindly smile and tell him due to the previous circumstances you cannot do so and walk away!

Then go to the back of the shop when he leaves and punch a hole through the sheetrock wall, but try not to hit one of the 2x4 studs that hurts!!

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As long as it is realized and accepted that warriors must comprehend right and wrong, and strive to do right and avoid wrong, then the way of the warriors is alive.
 
You can guarantee against a flaw in the material.Be it the steel or the handle. You can guarantee against a flaw in your work.(God forbid).You can't guarantee against STUPIDITY. Maybe this guys friends know him and won't put much stock in his whinning. Still a tough call.I think,repeat think, I would refund his money and refuse to sell him any more knives.the end result
Your call and feel good either way you go.
Take Care
TJ Smith
 
d2 is a very good steel....but i stopped using it over 12 years ago because of problems just like that....guys would have the knife for a week and complain that it was starting to rust where they had handled it on the full tang....i sharpen a few jimmy liles on occasion that are very pitted, he liked to use that stuff...switch to cpm steels is my advice...as for the guy..its your call...if hes a big jerk, tell him to shove it....if hes a great guy and might buy more knives you could make him a new one.. its not an easy decision....but im sure you will do what you think is best and will be comfortable with that...as for telling him to shove it....i dont think ive ever done that but i sure have been tempted to a few times...
smile.gif


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http://www.mayoknives.com


 
Man, I wish the auto industry offered such a guarentee and some folks expect us knife makers to offer. Shoot, I'd roll my 92 olds right up to the factory door and tell em I'd like to give it back cause it's not brand new condition anymore. Swap it for a new one or gte my money back! What do folks expect from us?

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Always think of your fellow knife makers as partners in the search for the perfect blade, not as people trying to compete with you and your work!http://www.nebsnow.com/L6steel
 
I second L6's comments.

Imagine if Mr. Jensen's customer had done this with a revolver and sent it back to the factory for a refund or free repair. Or with just about any other product you can think of. Try using a steel hammer on a fine wood chisel. Or operating your cellular phone in the shower. Duh. "Hello customer service? I'm in the shower and this phone ---zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz"

Standing behind your product is one thing; being responsible for the foolishness of others is something else.

I agree that it's a tough call, but if you think that just by giving this customer a refund he won't still go around telling anyone who will listen that the knife was crap, you better think again. Best you can hope for is that those listening will know the teller and pay him no mind.

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Totally new website!
http://www.wilkins-knives.com
 
Fellers-
After reading the contrite excuse the guy gave (his wife washed it, etc.) I gave him a couple options:

1. The knife was originally flat ground edge to spine, so I can hollow grind out nearly all the damage to the blade on a wet wheel. This will also totally obliterate my mark (maybe a good thing in this case ;-) ), & he understands & accepts it, and states he will not entrust this knife to his spouse in the future!
I will also grind in several "purchase" slots & notches on the tang for the epoxy to grab onto, and will be using the new Loctite 2 part spray adhesive on it which I've heard so much about. Also put in several blind pins, so it should be solid as a rock.

#2 was to make him a new one out of CPM 420-V, and knock off a portion of what the original knife cost him.

He chose #1. It shouldn't take me more than a couple hours, he's a friend and somewhat influential in certain circles, and I feel I need to give the benefit of the doubt to a novice knife person, even though instructions were given at the time of delivery regarding the care of non-stainless cutlery.

I figure it's better to bite the bullet once per customer, but after that, if it's neglect or abuse, they pay full price.

Thanks for letting me vent,
Harry
 
Harry, you sound like a good man. Let the customer come away with a win even tho it is not your fault. customer satisfaction doesn't always have to mean that you give away the farm, just let the customer have a small win. he knows he screwed up and can only hope guilt kicks in and tells everyone what a fantastic job you did on the knife but also how good you treated him in repairing the knife. Good luck in the future and hopefully it will never happen again.


Remember it only takes one AW SH-T to cancel out a thousand ATTABOYs.
 
I must say, I'm rather impressed.
I have a rather nasty attitude when it comes to someone ignoring good instructions, especially if that resulted in the destruction of one of my creations. You've shown us a situation of "Turning lemons into lemonade".
You've not only turned a potential enemy into someone that will likely rave even more about you, but you've also taken a frustration and turned it into a challenge.
Thanks for the good example.

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Oz

Now, what other news did I have? Oh yes, IT'S A GIRL!!!
See her and my latest blades @
http://www.freespeech.org/oz/
 
I second Mr. Osburn's reply, good call! I think I'll write that down.

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It is better to bear the rebuke of a wise man than to enjoy the flattery of fools.
 
Hi Harry
Sorry about your troubles with this customer. I have been in business for many years and have my own personal policy. If you are unhappy I will refund completely. If you are a jerk and unhappy, I will still do the refund with a smile, but you get added to my short list. When anyone on my shortlist comes around again, I just explain that I am WAY too busy right now. And I stay that busy until they quit asking. As I have gotten older some of the belly-fire about being right has subsided.
This policy allows me to sleep comfortably and there are very few people around who will criticize my work or my policies.
Good Luck with whatever you decide to do.
One of my favorite quotes is from Abe Lincoln: Any damn fool can criticize, condemn and complain... and they usually do.

Dave Evans

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Proud Member
Buck Collector's Club
American Knife and Tool Institute
Oregon Knife Collectors Association
http://www.usedknife.com
 
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