Review : Ray Kirk JS Bowie

Cliff Stamp

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The cutting performance of this bowie is very high, up there with some of the best performing smaller blades I have. This is one of the few knives that I have handled that I had no desire to modify the edge geometry.

The knife handles very well, is comfortable in hand, and the grip is secure except in extreme conditions. In spite of the thin edge geometry, the durability is actually quite high due I would expect to a combination of the convex nature of the grinds and the abilities of the steel.

More details :

http://www.physics.mun.ca/~sstamp/knives/bowie_ray_kirk.html

-Cliff
 
Cliff--

Thanks for the review--impressive performance.

Any info on heat treat/differential tempering on the Kirk bowie?

--Will
 
Cliff,

Ray really makes a fine knife and puts a vorpally sharp edge on it.
(As evidenced by his having won the last couple of ABS cutting competitions where he went up against some of the best names in the business.)

I have four of Ray's smaller knives and each one of them is a winner.

Way to go, Ray.

Blues
 
Hello !

Ray is really an steel artist.
But testing his good blade on concrete is really "strange" IMHO.

How do we tell the people in the white coats
Enough is enough?

cheers,

JM
 
Good going, Ray. Giving a knife to Cliff is not for the faint of heart. ;)
 
I am some impressed by the performance of Ray's blades. I'm going to be in his area this week(I was raised about 25 miles from where he lives), and Im going to try to get with him. I'd like to have one of his neck knives.
 
Will, the blade has a differential temper, it was bent as part of the ABS test. To what RC, I don't know, I'll ask Ray and see if I can't get some details.

Nemo, glad to see you back on the forums.

Blues, yes, the high cutting performance of Ray's bowie forced me to evaluate the edges I had on my larger knives. They are another level above what I had seen to date.

-Cliff
 
I have been gone and it looks like a lot has changed lately. The JS blade was bent 90 deg. and I hammered it out straight when I got back home from Atlanta.

NEMO, the reason that Cliff used the blade on a concrete block was that I had asked him to. Last fall, a post on the Marbles knife that looked bad because it was later discovered that the heat treat was incomplete, it was suggested that the blade had been used to cut concrete. I made mention of what I thought and Cliff e-mailed me about the reasons and the end result was that I sent some knives to cliff to evaluate. I also wanted to see what it would do and I figured an independent testor would be best. It performed above expectations.

The heat treat is very simple. After forging, normalize at least twice, and anneal in vermiculite. This will reduce the grain size. Profile and drill holes and rough grind. Leave the cutting edge about a dime thick. Heat to critical the area you want to harden and quench in "hot" oil (300 deg. Dextron II transmission fluid). Leave it in the oil for one hour and then allow to cool to about 150 deg. Check with file and temper. It is my opinion, that you need to keep the blade in the temperature range that martinsite forms to enable the steel to have a more complete transformation. Temper twice for 2 hours each and between temper cycles, cool to room temperature or below.
At about 400 deg., the 52100 will have a Rc of 57 and at about 450 deg., it will be about 56 Rc. The JS Bowie was tempered at 475 deg.

I didn't mean to take up a lot of space, but then I haven't been able to get on the computer for a while and have been having withdrawal symptoms :).
 
Are there a lot of makers making big choppers out of 52100? Way back when, everyone "knew" you made hunters out of 52100, and big choppers out of 5160. In fact, the Steel FAQ more or less reflects that, but I've been aware for some time that there are more and more makers who believe 52100, properly heat treated, is an excellent steel for a big chopper.

Joe
 
Thank you Ray for helping me to understand why Cliff has completly ruined such a beautiful... concrete block ! ;)

So next step is adamantium claws ?
:D


cheers,
JM
 
An excellent review as usual, Cliff. Ed Fowler's book had already made me a strong believer in 52100 steel. Nice to see that belief proved in the "real" world.

The only disappointment I found in the review was the switching from the BM to the Strider. (sp?) All the way through the tests, we had the smaller -- in mass -- Bowie compared to the significantly larger BM by Busse. Then, when it comes to the potentially destructive part of the tests, suddenly the Bowie is being compared to an even smaller knife, with a completely different steel than the Busse.

I know I lack information I would like about INFI steel. I would truly have loved to find out how it performed chopping cement. But, am left with a complete vacancy.

COuld you please share the reasons for the switch, and not subjecting the primary comparison knife with the Bowie test blade?

Thanks,
 
Ray :

It performed above expectations.

I could not agree more, to be blunt I had always thought that the claims made about forged bowies were more hype than substance. I didn't expect much of anything from Ray's bowie that I had not seen before. Immediately upon handling it I noticed the light balance and concluded that it would not chop very well and given the edge thickness reasoned that while it would cut well, it would take damage the first time that it hit a knot and would distort when it was used for heavy chopping on small limbs.

The cutting performance really has to be seen to be believed and was quite a surprise. I have thinned out my BM quite a bit and the forged bowie readily outcut it to an extreme manner due to the thin edge and convex geometry (primary and secondary). Ray's bowie could cut alongside some of the best small blades I have, blades so optomized for light use that they can't be used for anything else. Based on this I did not have great expectations for Ray's blade when I cut something a little harder than rope.

The first chopping I did was quite tentative, but after many days of work and no effect at all on the blade I eventually moved up to full force and the bowie held up fine, including clearing through a few knots every now ang again with no problems. Even when taken to the extreme, the edge only distorted slightly (too small to be visible on a picture), and that was chopping on small diameter woods that result in a hard twist (fractures of the wood mainly, or heavy interweaving of branches).

The concrete chopping was a bit tentative initially. The first couple of chops were very light and the edge did distort readily (sub mm depth, 0.1 - 0.2). However because the grind is convex and more importantly the steel didn't fracture but just impacted and deformed, the damage was kept to a reasonable level. I could resore it with a handstone in under an hour, in a few minutes on a 1" belt sander. Ray when you get it back, assuming you sharpen it could you comment in this regard?

Bugs3x :

Could you please share the reasons for the switch, and not subjecting the primary comparison knife with the Bowie test blade?

A fair and obvious question. It would get damaged to such a degree that I would need to remove a considerable amount of steel in order to restore it. I put off doing this until I accidently damage the blade in a similar manner (or decide to thin it out again) and thus keep the metal removal to a minimal level. If this doesn't happen in the near future, I'll go ahead and do it anyway and update the review.

The Strider was chosen as I had been discussing some issues of hollow grinds and ATS-34 in emails with a few people and wanted something more than just theory as part of the discussion. I also used a cheap 420J2 blade which really got tore up, it indented to a much greater extreme than Ray's bowie which I would have guessed given its RC is probably ~48 or so. I would have taken a few shots of that but a friend took it to do some work with and show a few people. When I get it back I'll add some details in that regard.

In retrospect I should have contained the chopping to sections of the blade, light chopping in one area, heavy in another. This way you could have more readily see what effect it had instead of chopping all along the blade as I did. Live and learn.

-Cliff
 
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