Reviewing the Book on Sharpening

I have completed the first leg of my education in sharpening by reading and using the practices found in "The Razor Edge Book of Sharpening" written by John Juranitch. The Book is very informative but I found that what they piled on to 143 pages could have been said in about 35. Anyway this is a post to put up what you think of shaprening. I am going to put up a couple of thoughts and you guys fire away with whatever you have to say.

1. The fact stated in the book is that for finishing your edge with a fine hone there is no magic angle. It states as long as you keep your angle under 25 degrees you'll produce an excellent edge. what do you think?

2. It states that you only need a coarse and ultra fine hone ( which they just happen to produce the supposed best two) to get the perfect edge. what about medium hones for preparing the edge for finishing? Needless step or a good idea? Who do you guys think make the best hones? Share web sites if you got them. it could help us all to have more resources between us.

3. It states that most steels (for steeling your blade) are junk because they are too rough. they say that a steel is worthless unless you can see your reflection in it? Is steeling needed or perhaps just finishing your edge on a rock hard 1,200 grit stone? Are those two options basically the same thing?

4. It also states that Most to all manufacturers put an aweful relief on their blades and to get a pefect edge you have to grind away half of the blades face to run the secondary bevel almost into the edge itself. Now this would void most warranties on knives and would make them as ugly as sin. Is this craziness or worth while for the ultimate edge?

5. What are sharpening guides good for? Do you guys think they are needed or just a crutch for the novice?

Remember... I am not giving any opinions here jsut topics of discussion so if you see something that goes against everything you believe to be true, don't cuss me out. Just wanting to discuss this with my fellow blade lovers. Any advise from the expert or the experienced dabler is greatly appreciated.

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[bfm]

Well, for final angle on a knife I prefer a 20 degree off center. But under 25 is probably a good working angle. As for what grits you need, that depends on how polished an edge you want and how long you are willing to take to get it. For the amount of metal they claim normally needs to be removed at first a corse stone is a must. A medium would help smoothings quicker and shorten you time on the fine stone. I mostly use a medium to back bevel or repair a damaged edge and a fine or extra fine to finish it. I tend to use diamond bench stones and one of the two ceramic rod systems I have. The bench stone is great for really dull or damaged and I finish on the rods. The people I have sharpened for say the edges cut and look better than the factory most of the time. As for their stones, I have tried them and they are good, but personal opinion is a good DMT stone will remove metal faster and a fine ceramic will give a finer edge. Also on blades with compound curves (like the Commander) a set of rods makes things so much simpler. How much metal should you remove? Depends on the knife. I have no complaints about the way any of mine cut. Would they cut better if I ground half the blade down? Well a thinner blade does cut better, but since I have no complaints so far, I'll leave mine the way they are.

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It is not the fall that kills you. It is the realization that "yes, you did something that stupid."

 

[Cliff Stamp]

Ryu :

It states as long as you keep your angle under 25 degrees you'll produce an excellent edge.

You need to adjust the angle so as to get the functional level of durability needed. Better steels will allow thinner edges. How thin to go depends on the material as well as what you are doing with the blades.

you only need a coarse and ultra fine hone ( which they just happen to produce the supposed best two) to get the perfect edge.

The more hones you have the easier it will get. It will take awhile for an x-fine stone to remove the deep scratches from a coarse stone. If you put a medium and fine stone in between you will use overall a lower amount of strokes. You can also keep checking your progress which is important.

a steel is worthless unless you can see your reflection in it?

Rough steels have their uses, on softer blades you can use them just as a file and never need to touch a hone.

Is steeling needed or perhaps just finishing your edge on a rock hard 1,200 grit stone? Are those two options basically the same thing?

They are not the same. A smooth steel will align and push out the edge making it thinner and straighter. You should be able to notice an improvement even after finishing on a x-fine hone. As well you can use a steel to maintain the edge as deformation will set in long before wear.

Most to all manufacturers put an aweful relief on their blades and to get a pefect edge you have to grind away half of the blades face to run the secondary bevel almost into the edge itself.

This is basically true.

Is this craziness or worth while for the ultimate edge?

Yes. However the difference it makes is not nearly as great as the angle of the edge.

What are sharpening guides good for?

They allow you to keep the stroke angle constant.

Do you guys think they are needed or just a crutch for the novice?

They are not needed, but it takes some time before you can make the angle constant from stroke to stroke. If you can't do this it will take much longer to sharpen.

As for hones, for light pressure work I use DMT 8" diamond hones, for heavy pressure, fast cutting work I use 8" Japanese Waterstones.

-Cliff

 

where do ya get those hones Cliff?

 

[Cliff Stamp]

Lee Valley sells both types and is where I bought mine (simply because they have a canadian branch) but a simple net search will turn up lots of dealers.

-Cliff

 

[Jeff Clark]

Point #4 is probably the most effective thing you can do. This is basically what Buck did to produce their "Edge 2000" enhanced blade contour. A steady hand or an edge guide helps you to make your secondary bevel look even. If you have some intermediate grit hones it is easier to polish the secondary bevel. Japanese water stones are good for this. Most of the time I just use a medium-coarse and extra fine hone. I like the conspicuous secondary bevel. It is the sign of a really well sharpened edge.

 

[Joe Talmadge]

I love that book, but disagree with a number of the details. Still, as far as teaching the fundamentals of sharpening, it's great.

1. The fact stated in the book is that for finishing your edge with a fine hone there is no magic angle. It states as long as you keep your angle under 25 degrees you'll produce an excellent edge. what do you think?

Really, it depends on who you're talking to. To someone who has never gotten a knife sharp, a well-sharpened 24-degree blade might seem like a miracle. But the fact is, the thinner the edge, the better it performs. 2-3 degrees makes a noticeable difference. In the end, I definitely don't agree that any angle under 25 as good as any other.

2. It states that you only need a coarse and ultra fine hone ( which they just happen to produce the supposed best two) to get the perfect edge. what about medium hones for preparing the edge for finishing? Needless step or a good idea? Who do you guys think make the best hones? Share web sites if you got them. it could help us all to have more resources between us.

Now this is one of the areas I strongly disagree with. Juranitch likes highly-polished edges. The fact is, highly polished edges edges do well for push cuts and similar cutting, but terrible for slicing. An edge left more coarse will blow away a razor edge for slicing, and I mean really outperform it by a whole lot. Your own question about using a medium hone as a transition step shows Juranitch-type bias -- if you're going to be doing more slicing than shaving, consider using the medium hone as your final grit. Most people sharpen to a finer grit than optimum.

3. It states that most steels (for steeling your blade) are junk because they are too rough. they say that a steel is worthless unless you can see your reflection in it? Is steeling needed or perhaps just finishing your edge on a rock hard 1,200 grit stone? Are those two options basically the same thing?

For Juranitch, steeling aligns the edge, and this was one of his main points. If you're on a 1200 grit stone, you're sharpening, not aligning. I agree with Juranitch here -- sharpen when you want to sharpen, and align when you want to align. For aligning an edge, I use a smooth steel. For sharpening, I use stones.

And again, you're talking about 1200 grit hones. Why so fine? Are you really doing so much shaving and so little slicing?

4. It also states that Most to all manufacturers put an aweful relief on their blades and to get a pefect edge you have to grind away half of the blades face to run the secondary bevel almost into the edge itself. Now this would void most warranties on knives and would make them as ugly as sin. Is this craziness or worth while for the ultimate edge?

He's right about many manufacturers leaving the edges too thick. I grind my relief in at 15 degrees or sometimes a bit less. I don't go all the way up the knife face like he does. Going to a lower angle could make the knife perform better, arguably.

5. What are sharpening guides good for? Do you guys think they are needed or just a crutch for the novice?

No matter how good you get at sharpening, there's just no way you'll be able to hold as accurate an angle as the sharpening guides can give you. By all means, I feel you should learn to sharpen freehand. But start off with a guide -- that will let you learn the subtleties of sharpening such as raising the burr, picking a good angle and finishing grit, etc., without also having to worry about your angle.

Joe