Richtig question

I read the same thing in a midwestern paper about 5- 10 years ago. That article would indicate that the processes were truly lost. His nephew had no conclusive information that he knew the secrets. You may want to contact Levine on his forum or the museum in Intercourse PA. The museum owner is very knowledgeable and has a small set of Richter's knives from WWII. I believe the museum is the American Military Edged Weapon Museum.
 
Curious if anyone has ever independently looked at the performance claims that were made for Richtig's knives. While certainly an interesting part of US knife-lore, I seriously doubt that some of the things which Richtig purportedly was able to do with his knives amounted to anything more than parlor tricks, or just outright exaggeration.

Anyone have any further information? Perhaps someone has a Richtig they'd like to send to Cliff for testing? ;)
 
I was curious to see who Ritchtig was. Found this.



WWII Richtig Double Edge Fighter--Super Rare--Made by Frank J. Richtig of Clarkson, Neb. Early double edge fighter. The blade is 6 3/4" long, is unmarked as are most of his Early WWII knives. Ref: Silvey WWII pg 210 & 211. Frank J. Richtig made some of the most handsome combat knives of World War II. He had a secret tempering process for his blades and he demonstrated their toughness by hammering them through railroad spikes and buggy axles, slicing them into pieces and then, to show how unaffected the edge was by the whole process,he sliced thin ribbons from newspaper. This demonstration was documented by Ripley in 1936 installment of "Believe it or not"
With the coming of World War II, Richtig began to concentrate on fighting knives. These were knives of extraordinary beauty. Blades, made from1/8th inch stock, were six to eight inches long, handles were of leather washers and colored and brass spacers with brass double guards and pommels. Blades generally either a dagger style with the top edge sharpened about ¾ of the way back or a single edge with a long tapering clip point. Most had the tang protruding through the pommel and it was drilled to accept a wrist thong. Many of his knives varied from this standard fighter design and were one of a kind works of art. His knives have belonged to presidents and generals
 
Harlan Suedmeier has an extensive collection of Richtig knives. He is also probably the most knowledgable concerning those knives. He came to my shop years ago bringing some Richtig knives for me to test. I found his knives to be excellent cutting insturments, outcutting most of the knives in existence now. For years I flexed one of his blades to 90 degrees in my hands for every visitor to my shop. The blade returned to within 5 degrees of straight on its own after the flexes. After hundreds of 90 degree flexes it finally broke. The knife was an excellent cutter, I reground the blade and it now serves as my leather knife for making sheaths.

Rex has done some laboratory work on Richtig knives, and has obtained some origonal Ryerson steel of the same chemistry found in the Richtig knives. Ryerson was a dealer in steel, not a maker. They evidently had some good stuff for Richtig used their steel almost exclusively and was proud of it.

We plan to try to duplicate the nature of his knives. This has been a goal of mine for over 50 years. Rex feels that Frank Richtig utilized a very effective tempering process after hardening the blades.

Each batch of steel that Richtig received had an invoice, each invoice has three circles with two hash marks at different places on the 'clock face'
(circle). The marks were different on each invoice indicating something different (?). Photo copies of some of the invoices hung in my kitched for years, just to give me something to ponder. There were no numbers in the circles and we have no evidence to indicate which way the numbers ran, (clockwise or counter clockwise ? ).

Harln has asked every one associated with Frank Richtig about his process or testing methods. No one has been able to supply any information.

I have some ideas and plan on reporting them as soon as I feel the theories are valid. There is a lot to know, and we will never be absolutely certain how he did it, but it will be fun trying to develop similar blades.

The side show stuff he did required a good piece of steel, but naturally there is more to it than that.

One very positive aspect of his knives, he knew how to promote them and they were and remain an honest knife. In his day sharing information was not considered an attribute or wise, not his fault, just the nature of the times.

The man earned a lot well deserved respect! Anyone owning one of his knifes has a great example of knife history. I have used one to cut my steak for over 20 years and smile each time I use it. He deserves his place in the cutlery hall of fame.
 
Thank you Mr.Fowler. It is always nice to hear from someone with some first hand knowledge. Good luck with finding the process.
 
Ed, thanks for your informative post.

I've long admired the aesthetic qualities of Richtig's knifes, and always assumed his blades to have been excellent. As with most persons and things that developed something of a mystique about them and grew into legends, however, discerning the true facts of the matter can be no mean feat sometimes.

I do hope you'll share more of your thoughts and findings on this subject in the future. It'd be quite interesting to unravel some of the mystery surrounding Richtig's processes.
 
I sold Cutco for part of last summer. In that time I got to see a lot of peoples kitchen knives. In a demonstration with a former colleague of my dads, he pulled out some of these old knives with casted handles. I got really excited because I knew what they where from Ed's book. The had "FJR, Clarkson, Nebr." After showing them Cutco(they didn't buy anything :) ) , I loaned them Ed's book so they could read about him. Needless to say, they appreciated it, and gave me a well worn paring knife made by Richtig.

Just this summer a Korean friend of mine was riding his bike by with beautiful young lady. They stopped by and she introduced herself. Her last name was Richtig. I jokingly said,"Are you related to the knifemaker Richtig"? To my surprise she said yes! He was her great great uncle or something(she wasn't for sure) What are the odds?!

Anyways, I find it interested that Richtig's combat knives were made from 1/8 and were considered combat knives. Now most "combat" knives are 1/4 or thicker.
 
Ed...

Is there no information from the time?...no eye witness as to how the guy was able to change that type of steel into a knife blade that could cut like that?

or is all we can hope for now is to think about what we would need to do in the way of heat treating a blade to reproduce the cutting ability of such knives?

could any type of test,,,any type known to science, have a chance to be able to answer the question , "How did he do it?"
 
The infiormation we feel is valid is:
Reyerson was his favorite supplier.

He cut the blades from sheets without regard for grain flow, probably for effecient use of the material.

I feel he was able to vary the treatment of each batch according to its nature. Thus the three circles on each invoice. One of my quests is to determine a method of testing cut and tough that will predict accurately the required heat treat.

Some sophisticated laboratory may be able to learn from examining the blades, we do not have that degree of technology available to us.

Rex found hard with a high level of toughness. He feels a sophisticated tempering process is indicated.

Three circles with six variables, (maybe)
What matters to steel, time and temperature and repetition.

It is a very interesting puzzle.

He was able to economically produce a great many knives therefor his treatment was based on knowledge and skill rather than high ticket technology.

The story is as follows, he was partners in a Ford dealership, worked on knives at night. One day he came to work very elated, sold his half of the business and became a knife maker.

He made some beautiful custom knives and a lot of simple knives. Unfortunately he is not widely known for the exceptional knives, most of his reputation is based on the economical ones. Harlan has many beautiful knivs with stacked leather washer handles capped with Brass. I have one that is unsigned but obviously one of his. It is well made and cuts like a dream. He left some very interesting crafting marks on his knives that make the identification possible.

Harlan has writted some excellent articles about Frank Richtig's knives in the knife annuals. I can't name the exact issues by year, but possibly menbers of Blade Forms may have them refferenced.
Harlan has some long bladed machettis at the Oregon show last year. They were very impressive knives!
If you would write Harlan Suedmeier, Rt 2 Box299D. Nebraska City Nebraska, 68410 along with a few bucks for postage and copy stuff he will share what he knows with you.
 
ColoradoDave :

Perhaps someone has a Richtig they'd like to send to Cliff for testing?
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I discussed these with a custom maker a few years ago. I was not impressed with the description of performance. The ability to flex and return to true when the blade is slim isn't something to be excited about. This morning I took a cheap stainless steel kitchen knife and bent it to 100 degrees in a 4x4 (pressure treated - quite dense). I went past 90 just to insure the slight deflection of the wood was taken into account.

When the knife was released (it was bend a few times), it went from 4-6 degrees off of straight through 10 inches. Yes, that is all, just a few degrees. Note as well this was a cheap stainless kitchen knife, a decent carbon one would easily have more of a spring. As well this knife was sabre ground with a large flat for more flexibility you would want a high flat, convex or dual profile.

In regards to cutting soft metals, that is more hype than substance. If you have never done it, then it might seem impressive, however once you have used a lot of knives to cut through such materials, and even much harder ones. Then it doesn't say a lot. This test shows more of the users technique than the knife. I have cut 3.5" common nails in half with Deerhunters (stainless blades, ~1/16" thick), with no damage. Very thin and acute edges.

Back to bending, what is most often left out is the radius of the bend. Just saying bent to 90 doesn't tell the whole story, it is like saying you can run a sprint in 10 s. Well, yes but how far was the race? You need to specific the radius of curvature of the bend (the length of the arc, and any nonuniform point if existing).

-Cliff
 
Cliff:
I think you are missing the point, Richtig did his work when Metallurgy was not at a state even close to what it is now. He was working without all the advances in material science that have occured in the intervening decades.



This morning I took a cheap stainless steel kitchen knife and bent it to 100 degrees in a 4x4 (pressure treated - quite dense). I went past 90 just to insure the slight deflection of the wood was taken into account.
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Then in the same post:
Back to bending, what is most often left out is the radius of the bend. Just saying bent to 90 doesn't tell the whole story, it is like saying you can run a sprint in 10 s. Well, yes but how far was the race? You need to specific the radius of curvature of the bend (the length of the arc, and any nonuniform point if existing).
Click to expand...

Where in your first statement is the radius of the bend or the specific radius of curvature of the bend (the length of the arc, and any nonuniform point if existing)?

Seems a bit of a paradox to slam others for doing the same as you.
 
Mike :

Where in your first statement is the radius of the bend or the specific radius of curvature of the bend
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"...through 10 inches", there was no nouniform point as the flex was even, you need a rigid constraint for this like the jaws of a vice which will focus the curvature on one small section and can thus make a very small angle act like a very large one. The radius can roughly calculated from length of the bend. So to be specific, list the relevant geometry and characteristics of the "vice". This will allow someone else to repeat it with other blades and just make inferences on steels.

On a side note, the knife also had a huge notch in the center of the blade, half a cm deep into the edge and as wide from some earlier hard cutting. I was actually curious if that was going to crack. It didn't. However when the blade was straightened, cracks could be heard. I would assume repeated flexing would cause rapid propogation in that area.

I think you are missing the point ...
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I was commenting on the relevance to modern blades. Nothing I have seen is impressive in that regard which was the point made. I have not used a lot of other blades from that period so can't comment on how advanced the blades were compared to others which they may have very well been.

-Cliff
 
Thanks for the comments, Cliff. Outside of machetes and foils, when it comes to blade flexibility, I'm afraid I have precious little experience; perhaps in a former life I was a Japanese chef or woodworker, because I seem to have a reflexive aversion to using most knives in a way that induces a lot of flex. But I'm reading and learning from you, Ed and others, hoping to improve my sorry state of knowledge in these areas, and appreciate your contributions.

The stories associated with Richtig that really struck me were the ones of cutting through heavier steel or iron objects, like axles and I think railroad spikes. Unfortunately it seems we just don't know much about the 'particulars' of these objects being cut -- I would think most standard, production wagon axles from Richtig's day would be some mighty tough cutting indeed, but since we don't know the 'pedigree' of those he actually used, we're left to wonder.

Part of it is a long-standing fascination I have with older and antique tools. Though I'm not inclined to put much stock in long-lost, secret processes, and appreciate modern advances in metallurgy and heat treat as being very significant, I've nonetheless found some older tools that are really pretty remarkable. There obviously were some highly skilled craftsman, foundries and other production facilities around, 50, 75, and 100+ years ago, who knew how to produce tools that were as good, if not better in many instances, than a lot of stuff that's available today.

But that's the fun part about this quest for knowledge ... and sometimes, it's a true learning experience just rediscovering what was known to those who went before us.
 
Cliff,
THanks for the explanation. Looking back on my repsonse it is worded a bit harsh, I am sorry for that. I am at work, and had to type out a quick response as I had a call waiting.

You are right in that you did not miss the point, I simply misunderstood what you had wrote.

I don't think there is anything mystical about old knives, metals have made quantum leaps forward in the last few decades.

I think if people were to actually test some of the revered blades, like the old samurai swords, they would find that modern steels and modern heat treatment provides a product which is much more advanced.

However, as CODave points out, this really only applies to quality tools. I have many of my grandfathers Planes and other tools, all of which are excellent. They are much better than some of the new crap that comes out. However, high quality modern tools, are even better.

I guess in tools, like in life, you get what you pay for.
 
Mike_Chandler :

I think if people were to actually test some of the revered blades, like the old samurai swords, they would find that modern steels and modern heat treatment provides a product which is much more advanced.
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Yes I would agree. The basic problem is that stories of performance grow in the telling, plus once reverence and mystery start to set in, and the prices of such knives start to grow, actual use and feedback becomes very rare so there is no stopping the myth from growing further.

I have many of my grandfathers Planes and other tools, all of which are excellent. They are much better than some of the new crap that comes out. However, high quality modern tools, are even better.
Click to expand...

Yes, it is finding the right ones that is the tricky part. With older heavily used tools, they have to be of decent quality as otherwise they would never have lasted.

-Cliff
 
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