Riddle me this ?

[Letoff]

I'm always trying to learn, amateur sharpener for sure. What I've learned has been from YouTube vids from guys who ain't always right, some are.
I said all that because I often get a work knife from a person and I try new things I've watched or I may just want to prove/try something for myself. Last night was one of those nights.

I'm using a TSPROF Blitz 360, sharpening a Manix 2 @ 14.5 dps and decided instead of just doing my thing for each side of the blade I would count the passes I made from heel to tip and back. To be specific, start sweeping at the heel, go to tip and back to heel, this is 1 pass. Then again, #2, and again, #3................ until I get my burr, then flip it and repeat. Now keep in mind I'm reprofiling this knife, using Venev Diamond Stone 80 grit as my first stone. I'm not trying to prove the same amount of passes on one side is what you do on the other. I'm only trying to see where I'm at.

So I make 41 passes on side 1, got a burr and flip to the other side. I just wanted to see after 41 passes on side 2 how close I was to achieving my burr, this was my purpose, I'm experimenting. I'm not trying to prove anything, I just wanted to see where I was at when 41 passes were made, that's it.

Now on side 2, after those passes I see I do have a burr but I also see my bevel is much wider on side 1 (see pics below). Got drug away by the wife and never got back to the knife.

Tell me a couple things.

When I go back to the knife tonight, do I keep removing metal on side 2 until my bevel becomes even with side 1 ? I believe the correct answer is yes.
***Now Letoff, why are you asking this ? *** Cause freakin Youtube ! There's a guy, I'm not going to tell you who, but he's got a following, I'm one of those followers. I was flipping through youtube this morning and I see a vid by him, it's exactly what I'm asking you. HE SAID NO, I would continue removing from Side 1. He presents this very thing where the bevel is wider on one side than the other and says you keep removing from the wider side, he doesn't demonstrate it, he's just presenting the situation and giving a solution. Got me all confused now.

Ok, lastly. This Manix 2, upon examination before sharpening, had the factory edge and looked pretty even to me but I didn't straight up look for THAT specific detail but I'm sure I would have noticed if it was as off as mine is now. So my question is this. Why ? After the same amount of passes on each side of the blade is my bevel much wider ? I never count passes, I don't have a rule for passes, I work the blade until I'm happy with my bevel/edge/burr/scratch pattern and flip and the same on the other side.

Feel free to critique, criticize, tell me I'm an idiot, whatever. Just want to learn.

Side 1

Side 2

 

[777 Edge]

A couple things:

Factory grinds are rarely even on both sides, neither in angle or in size. I don't think I've ever had a factory grind with exact even and perfect edge bevels. This means your edge is not perfectly centered (extreme example - but visualize the edge of a chisel with a big bevel one side and a tiny microbevel on the other. Both sides can be the exact same sharpening angle, but one is huge and one is tiny). Personally, I always re-profile and center my edge on a new factory fresh knife. Always.

From your clamp position, it is also very likely that your knife is not centered in the Blitz clamps (centered up/down I mean), and also not fully secure and can slightly move up and down inside the clamps. It may feel secure, but almost no knife clamps available on the market completely and properly aligns with a full flat grind. This is easy to solve though - you should clamp your Manix 2 with one of the Blitz clamps on the tang, just in front of the handle and the other clamp in the same location as it is. This is the way most FFG knives should be clamped. Your "tang" clamp stops any up/down rotational movement and your "tip" clamp stops any flex.

Then, continue removing metal on the smaller side (side 2 in your case) until the edge bevel is even on both sides. This will also center your edge bevel into alignment with the center of the blade.

As you know, YouTube "experts" can be a rabbit hole of misinformation and half-truths without them really knowing what they are doing. Unless the YouTube guy is taking about a Japanese grind on a kitchen knife then there would be no logical explanation as to why this dude would say to keep grinding away at the wide side unless you want the edge to get more and more out of alignment. If the goal is to eventually have your knife edge into a chisel or a Japanese grind, then this would make sense. My guess is that this YouTube guy has ground some of his knife edges out of alignment so badly that he has to spend more and more time on the "wide" side of his edges just to get a burr going every successive time he sharpens his knives and likely he is justifying his bad advice and "proving" this to himself because he sees this happening to him.

 

[Letoff]

Thanks Triple 7, I've never had a problem with any Spydercos but I've never done this experiment either, I'm always curious and since I was there.....................
I'll try what you said and put clamp on the tang but first I'll check for movement up & down but I'm almost positive that thing is secure, could be wrong.

I'm sure you noticed my bevel was wider at the tip as well, I know that's from the position of the knife in the clamp but again I was trying what I saw from a different YouTuber, he suggested clamping the tip and pivot screw straight with the clamps instead of tip to heel being the alignment. I subscribe to a lot of knife sharpeners can you tell ?

 

[777 Edge]

Thanks Triple 7, I've never had a problem with any Spydercos but I've never done this experiment either, I'm always curious and since I was there.....................
I'll try what you said and put clamp on the tang but first I'll check for movement up & down but I'm almost positive that thing is secure, could be wrong.

I'm sure you noticed my bevel was wider at the tip as well, I know that's from the position of the knife in the clamp but again I was trying what I saw from a different YouTuber, he suggested clamping the tip and pivot screw straight with the clamps instead of tip to heel being the alignment. I subscribe to a lot of knife sharpeners can you tell ?

It might be secure with a wider FFG like the Manix's profile but if one does not use a clamp on the tang you're still depending on how perfect the primary blade grind symmetry is...btw that's also not always perfect from the factory.

This is the only method I find that guarantees secure clamping with just about any FFG knife.

It also guarantees that your knife is centered in the clamps (up/down).

Your tip-to heel alignment looks ok in your pics, perhaps try clamp the tip clamp further towards the spine to bring the tip forward a little more if you can. In some cases, I would remove the digital angle cube platform in the center of the Blitz if I were you. It kind of just interferes with how you may want to clamp some knives. This will give you more room to align the clamp position you need.

Not all knife grinds can be clamped tip-to heel in perfect alignment, but always try to get it as close as you can.

 

[Letoff]

Well you were right, knife was right in clamp but as I eyeballed it looking down the blade I see I clamped side 1 down and side 2 up. It was tight in the clamp because of the tape I put on the blade held it form without clamps moving. Thus wider bevel. When I looked down the side of clamps it was obvious, could tell with the naked eye even if you didn’t flip to other side.
Put clamp on the tang and started again, got it all even and finished her off. She lookin good now with a mirror edge.
Preciate the help again 777.

 

[777 Edge]

Well you were right, knife was right in clamp but as I eyeballed it looking down the blade I see I clamped side 1 down and side 2 up. It was tight in the clamp because of the tape I put on the blade held it form without clamps moving. Thus wider bevel. When I looked down the side of clamps it was obvious, could tell with the naked eye even if you didn’t flip to other side.
Put clamp on the tang and started again, got it all even and finished her off. She lookin good now with a mirror edge.
Preciate the help again 777.

My pleasure!

Happy to help.

 

[Letoff]