Riding Gear?

[Noctis3880]

Here we go again.

Assuming Her Majesty approves of my choice, I'll be going with a Kymco 125 Agility Scooter with a 45 liter top case, so running roughly $2130-ish, not accounting for labor, parts, and tax.

The next thing that might raise some eyebrows is the protective gear I'm looking into.

Features I want are:
-High Visibility(might double my chances of being seen by fellow drivers from 1%)
-Abrasion resistance
-Hard armor over joints.
-Waterproof.
-Breathability(probably be wearing it all in a classroom).
-Longevity under normal use.

Thus far I've liked what the Fieldsheer offerings have, but I'm wondering if there are more appealing alternatives:
Jacket
Pants
Gloves

For the pants I might go with the mesh version(cheaper too), as nylon fabrics are utterly notorious for fraying like crazy, and the mesh seems to use a polyester outer. I suspect it'll be more breathable too.

Need a suggestion on the helmet, preferably full face, has some design to assist in venting, in fluorescent yellow, and rainproof too as I want to have my cake and eat it too. Or would it be simpler to pick one up at a dealer?

I'd estimate costs to be around $650-$750 for the gear(not including helmet), depending on the seller pricing(maybe new on Amazon/Fleabay, hopefully no Chinese counterfeits). Seems like it'll be half the price of the scooter itself, but I figure I can reuse the gear later on if and when I choose to upgrade to something more substantial. Plus I would like to pick up a Xena XX series disk lock alarm.

And you know, I figure if I'm unfortunate enough to survive the impact, I might as well do it with all body parts(sans testicles unless I wear a cup too:thumbup intact to save myself on the medical bills later on. Plus I'm idly wondering whether the insurance agent would give me a discount if I show them how I dress up on the scooter compared to everyone(and their grandmother) riding without a helmet while wearing flipflops and a muumuu.

I'm guessing total costs might soar up to $3,500 total when I'm done, before insurance. In hindsight I guess going for the Honda Forza might have cost me up to $10,000.

And as a slight off-topic, if you saw someone dressed like they're about to ride a 1000 lbs Harley riding on a small little scooter, would that turn your head a bit? I figure looking utterly ridiculous is actually a pro if drivers are aware of you because you look like an idiot:thumbup:. And you know, I was thinking if someone wanted to slap a tire iron over me to steal my scooter, it might be tough with all that crap on.

 

[gadgetgeek]

I've known a lot of guys that have been run off of a lot of bikes. Everything from catching tram rails to getting backed over in parking lots. I've made a few bikes fall over as well, but all on dirt, and nothing that bad. I think with a scooter, your main priorities should be helmet, boots, and gloves. we are not talking racetrack whipeouts with lots of sliding, but those little foot down incidents that will mess up an ankle, or a palms out landing that will leave some skin behind. I'm told by my mom (long time ER nurse) that picking cotton fluff out of road rash from denim really sucks, so some sort of over-pants are good too. But the main thing would be boots that are going to offer some protection to your ankles. I've sort of thought about the same things, living somewhere with a 12 month bike season. But so far I've been informed its not gonna happen, so I haven't done much further research.

 

[Noctis3880]

I've known a lot of guys that have been run off of a lot of bikes. Everything from catching tram rails to getting backed over in parking lots. I've made a few bikes fall over as well, but all on dirt, and nothing that bad. I think with a scooter, your main priorities should be helmet, boots, and gloves. we are not talking racetrack whipeouts with lots of sliding, but those little foot down incidents that will mess up an ankle, or a palms out landing that will leave some skin behind. I'm told by my mom (long time ER nurse) that picking cotton fluff out of road rash from denim really sucks, so some sort of over-pants are good too. But the main thing would be boots that are going to offer some protection to your ankles. I've sort of thought about the same things, living somewhere with a 12 month bike season. But so far I've been informed its not gonna happen, so I haven't done much further research.

Hmm, I'll still stick with the Fieldsheer jacket for now, due to the armor in the elbows, back, and shoulders. I believe the Fieldsheer pants I linked to are overpants, I'm just planning to wear them as only pants, mostly because they would restrict access to anything in my under-pants and because I'm not going to change in and out of them before and after class.

I'll probably pass on the boots. I typically find proper fit for them to be a PITA since fitment differs between brands. I'll probably use my Bates boots for the first few rides to get a feel for it, then wear my Wolverine 1000 Mile Courtland boots for casual wear.


Though off-hand, I'm wondering if I shouldn't just buy the Fieldsheer Armadillo Armor set in lieu of all this(aside from gloves and helmet):
http://fieldsheer.com/default/products/armadillo-protective-armor.html

It's essentially just the knee and elbow plates, along with an armored vest. I suspect the Old Lady will howl like a banshee if she gets a whiff of the money I'm shelling out for the gear, even if it's to provide maximum bodily protection against road rash and rain. But again, it's something I'd have to take time out of my day to put the stuff on and off before and after riding, whereas with my current considerations the only extra time is spent putting on the jacket and gloves(which incidentally have a bonus feature allowing use of mobile devices).

 

[Noctis3880]

Was looking at this helmet:
http://www.revzilla.com/motorcycle/scorpion-exo-1100-sixty-six-neon-helmet

Overkill much? Just my rather poor experience with "vented" and "anti-fog" safety goggles in the humid weather(particularly with vog) makes me want to go for the one with as much "anti-fog" as possible.

I think my total commitment to the gear right now is at about $1,100. Decided to upgrade the jacket a little more for one with more yellow and air vents(which probably only means something if I'm actually moving faster than 10 mph).


Ninja Edit:
Puts my total at a little upwards of $3,200. Yessiree, the Old Lady will be howling:thumbup:.

 

[Noctis3880]

Stupid thing I forgot to ask, but can a 125cc scooter go uphill? I know for sure a 50cc scooter would slowly drag me up there slower than I can walk, so that's out of the question. I'm just not 100% sure about the implications of the cc rating beyond the fact that higher numbers = more power and maybe more speed(depending on the weight of the scooter).

Not sure if I should sink in another $600 and upgrade to a 150cc scooter, as it really doesn't seem like it's that much of a difference. The hill itself isn't super steep in the sense that the Bus moves up it without slowing to a crawl, but it's enough that it takes me forever to go up the thing on my Cannondale using the lowest gears while riding on the pavement, with a road bicycle. Tires the hell out of me too.

Kind of another reason why I wanted a 279cc Honda Forza in the first place(twice the power if I understand it correctly).

The Kymco Agility is a 232.5 lbs(dry weight) scooter that has to lug me(maybe a little over 200 lbs with all the protective gear on), my 45 liter top case, my thick Abus City Chain, and my Saddleback Leather Large Briefcase(10 lbs) that contains my Macbook(5-10 lbs?) and typically two textbooks(another 10-ish lbs). Would the scooter risk flipping backwards if me and my stuff weighs more than the scooter itself? Also wondering if I might start wishing I had those combined ABS disk breaks on the Honda Forza when all that weight drags me downhill at 60 mph without me touching the gas.

 

[Sid Post]

For general utility and everyday use on the open road, I find a standard motorcycle to be a superior choice to almost all scooters. First, there is no substitute for larger diameter wheels. As simiple as it sounds, a larger wheel rolls over stuff easier. While not an issue in a perfect world, add pot holes, tram tracks, man hole covers, etc. where the large tire rolls over the obstacle and the smaller diameter doesn't is a real concern novices typically miss (remember, in the real world, man hole covers, tram tracks, etc. are hit at angle not 'square'). Just think about your common roller bag suitcase and how it jumps on sidewalk joints and locks up on a pebble. This doesn't happen with a two wheel dolly does it?

Engine displacement isn't just about "cc's". How and where it generates its power and how fast you are geared are important factors. My 250cc Kawasaki was somewhat weak on stock gearing because it was setup to run ~120mpg which was great for low fuel cost but, it was a little gutless for any off-road riding. I dropped the top end gearing from ~90mph to ~55mph and acceleration on the street, into a strong headwind, etc. was improved SIGNIFICANTLY as was off-road performance. If you are not riding on the Interstate at 70+ MPH do you really want to be geared so high for everyday use? Sure it's great on a windless day on a smooth flat top road but, I haven't ever seen one personally.

For safety gear, don't scrimp. Money spent on jackets, gloves, pants, helmets, etc. is much better than the money spent on insurance co-pays due to inferior gear and you avoid the pain of "road rash" and other injuries. For helmets, I can't say enough good things about SHOEI and ARAI but you should be aware that each helmet brand is designed for a different shape head so what works for one person could be a torture device for someone else. Wear good boots too! Dress shoes, sneakers, etc. will do nothing for you if you ever take a fall, especially at any speed (i.e. more than a simple stationary fall over).

Best Regards,
Sid

 

[Noctis3880]

For general utility and everyday use on the open road, I find a standard motorcycle to be a superior choice to almost all scooters. First, there is no substitute for larger diameter wheels. As simiple as it sounds, a larger wheel rolls over stuff easier. While not an issue in a perfect world, add pot holes, tram tracks, man hole covers, etc. where the large tire rolls over the obstacle and the smaller diameter doesn't is a real concern novices typically miss (remember, in the real world, man hole covers, tram tracks, etc. are hit at angle not 'square'). Just think about your common roller bag suitcase and how it jumps on sidewalk joints and locks up on a pebble. This doesn't happen with a two wheel dolly does it?

I might agree with you there, though I think it depends on the state, city, county, and how well the roads are maintained, as well as the amount of crap on the road(did spot some loose rims just laying on the road several times). But I believe the statistics for Hawaii show that motorcycles are typically involved in more accidents and have higher fatalities. Speed is a factor of course, as hitting a pothole at 50 mph can be dramatically different than hitting the same pothole at 30 mph or less, and might overcome the difference between the wheel sizes and suspension strength.

Engine displacement isn't just about "cc's". How and where it generates its power and how fast you are geared are important factors. My 250cc Kawasaki was somewhat weak on stock gearing because it was setup to run ~120mpg which was great for low fuel cost but, it was a little gutless for any off-road riding. I dropped the top end gearing from ~90mph to ~55mph and acceleration on the street, into a strong headwind, etc. was improved SIGNIFICANTLY as was off-road performance. If you are not riding on the Interstate at 70+ MPH do you really want to be geared so high for everyday use? Sure it's great on a windless day on a smooth flat top road but, I haven't ever seen one personally.

Windless? No. But the roads are typically very smooth outside of a few choice spots next to the sidewalk. 125cc shouldn't be that much overkill. I know 50cc would slow me to a crawl when I try to climb that hill leading up to the campus next to Diamond Head.

For safety gear, don't scrimp. Money spent on jackets, gloves, pants, helmets, etc. is much better than the money spent on insurance co-pays due to inferior gear and you avoid the pain of "road rash" and other injuries. For helmets, I can't say enough good things about SHOEI and ARAI but you should be aware that each helmet brand is designed for a different shape head so what works for one person could be a torture device for someone else. Wear good boots too! Dress shoes, sneakers, etc. will do nothing for you if you ever take a fall, especially at any speed (i.e. more than a simple stationary fall over).

That certainly sounds complicated, and I doubt any motorcycle dealers sell the particular one I'm looking at, much less a high visibility full face helmet. Though as far as regular bicycle helmets go, they've all had a snug fit in the past, so I doubt I'll have problems unless I measure my dimensions wrong.

I have reconsidered on the footwear, and have my sights set on a pair of TCS Air Tech Gore-Tex Boots.

I'm also considering a neck brace as well, but I'm kind of shying away from it since it'll be another $475(yellow colored padding) on top of the $1,350 of what I'm considering now, almost as much as the scooter itself. Though in retrospect, the neck is the only weak point in all this(other than taking a sharp metal pipe through the chest/stomach). I just figure the helmet extends down enough that the bottom of the helmet would stop my neck from bending at an extreme enough angle to snap it. Another reason being that what I'm looking at right now seems good enough for a "quick in and out" without putting on and taking off a bunch of gear between rides.

 

[sideways]

How you ride will also have an effect on your safety.

All of these bikes are invisible to the driver of the truck for example.

 

[Noctis3880]

^^^The front one I get, but he probably isn't checking his side mirrors if he misses the rest. Not that I ever depend on anyone else to do what they're supposed to. I typically walk behind a car instead of in front if they park it right over the crosswalk lines for a turn. Not because I want to be safe, but because I didn't want to have a philosophical debate of who should've done what with a 3000 lbs metal brick on wheels:thumbup:.

 

[Bob W]

Keep in mind that on a 125 Kymco you aren't going to be speeding down the interstate at 80mph. I'm assuming mostly in-town riding, with maybe some back roads. You certainly aren't going to be mixing it up with big rigs and cars on the "H" highways.

I wouldn't drop a bunch of $$ for high-end racing gear or even motorcycle jackets and pants. Don't skimp on the helmet though - even small falls are fatal if your head is unprotected. High-visibility is also critical for riding in congested traffic.

Mesh gear, considering your climate, is what you probably want. At low speeds I'd be happy with either a mesh riding jacket, or just something durable with long sleeves, like a denim shirt or uninsulated Filson jacket.
For pants, again I'd be happy with blue jeans at around-town speeds. Some mesh riding pants over your normal Hawaiian wardrobe would be good for country rides. If you prefer the look of blue jeans but want more protection than standard Levi's, Draggin' Jeans are excellent.

I'm sensitive and cautious about my hands, so leather or mesh riding gloves. They don't need to be armored or stuffed with insulation.

Helmet, full-face only for me please. Ventilation is important, as is quality. No one can recommend a helmet for you - different brands fit different shaped heads. Helmets must be tried on and fitted in person. If you have a large round noggin like me, look at Shoei. HJC is a reliable low-price brand if you have a narrower head. You might check out a flip-face helmet so you can cool off better at stoplights, but I wouldn't ride on the highway in anything that didn't have a solid chin piece.

Shoes. Probably don't need specialized motorcycle boots, just something made of leather that won't fall off should have a small slider. High-top leather tennis shoes, hiking boots, work boots... anything but slippers, low-tops, or flip-flops.

much less a high visibility full face helmet.

Helmets are small; put the high-viz stuff on your back. Add reflector stripes to your helmet for riding at night.

 

[Bob W]

^^^The front one I get, but he probably isn't checking his side mirrors if he misses the rest.

Nope. All of those motorcycle are out of the mirrors' line of sight.
When you're riding around trucks, don't dilly-dally. Get around them pronto, and stay out of their way.

 

[Les Snyder]

for hot humid Florida I use a Joe Rocket ventilated mesh jacket... and a Shoei full face helmet... I've drilled a series of vent holes around the top and bottom of the face shield, but usually have it cranked open a couple of clicks... added a couple of strips of black tape to act as a sun shield for low morning and evening sun... with a traditional helmet I use a wrap around face shield with a duck bill...mechanics gloves are good for one bounce...

 

[Sid Post]

Nope. All of those motorcycle are out of the mirrors' line of sight.
When you're riding around trucks, don't dilly-dally. Get around them pronto, and stay out of their way.

ABSOLUTELY.

Also, at speed the "suction effect" around a big rig is significant on a small displacement motorcycle.

 

[Bob W]

ABSOLUTELY.

Also, at speed the "suction effect" around a big rig is significant on a small displacement motorcycle.

Cruising west-bound on the Raton-Clayton highway, two lanes and 65mph... winds from the south gusting at 45mph... and a bike that 'only' weighs 550 lbs... Dozens and dozens of semi trucks heading east... Bike leaned into the gusting wind, then a second or two with no wind at all, and then WHAM, blasted by the semi. Used to bother me some, now I yell "Ya-Hoooo!!!!" I hope no one can hear.

 

[Noctis3880]

Keep in mind that on a 125 Kymco you aren't going to be speeding down the interstate at 80mph. I'm assuming mostly in-town riding, with maybe some back roads. You certainly aren't going to be mixing it up with big rigs and cars on the "H" highways.

True, but I'd assume even a U-Haul might have some issues if you're in the wrong spot.

I wouldn't drop a bunch of $$ for high-end racing gear or even motorcycle jackets and pants. Don't skimp on the helmet though - even small falls are fatal if your head is unprotected. High-visibility is also critical for riding in congested traffic.

I just figure the gear would be cheaper than having road rash for weeks(and maybe staying at the hospital). I got the lite version when I ate the sidewalk while riding a bike when I was young, it wasn't pleasant.

Mesh gear, considering your climate, is what you probably want. At low speeds I'd be happy with either a mesh riding jacket, or just something durable with long sleeves, like a denim shirt or uninsulated Filson jacket.
For pants, again I'd be happy with blue jeans at around-town speeds. Some mesh riding pants over your normal Hawaiian wardrobe would be good for country rides. If you prefer the look of blue jeans but want more protection than standard Levi's, Draggin' Jeans are excellent.

I'll certainly consider the mesh, given that it's specifically for weather like ours(more sun than not). Though truthfully, I like the look of that Adventure Tour jacket. Mostly yellow, but with some splashes of black at the right places so I don't look like a yellow power ranger.

I'm sensitive and cautious about my hands, so leather or mesh riding gloves. They don't need to be armored or stuffed with insulation.

Insulation no, I doubt it gets that cold even in the winter(a little chilly perhaps, but not cold cold). I like a slight bit of armor though, given the tendency to stick out your hands/arms to break a fall.

Helmet, full-face only for me please. Ventilation is important, as is quality. No one can recommend a helmet for you - different brands fit different shaped heads. Helmets must be tried on and fitted in person. If you have a large round noggin like me, look at Shoei. HJC is a reliable low-price brand if you have a narrower head. You might check out a flip-face helmet so you can cool off better at stoplights, but I wouldn't ride on the highway in anything that didn't have a solid chin piece.

A pity. But I wonder how practical that is. A local shop probably doesn't have the helmet I'd want, much less a high end brand. And even then there's no guarantee that they have the size you need(I typically have this issue with pants, being a waist 36 with 30 inseams). Though I typically find I have good luck with fitment of shoes so long as I know my size and carefully pay attention to customer reviews, who would typically note specific details on whether to pick a size up or down, and whether it's wide or narrow.

Shoes. Probably don't need specialized motorcycle boots, just something made of leather that won't fall off should have a small slider. High-top leather tennis shoes, hiking boots, work boots... anything but slippers, low-tops, or flip-flops.

True, but I wouldn't mind an excuse to have another lovely Gore-Tex pair. I also only use the flipflops for short walks to the mailbox.

Helmets are small; put the high-viz stuff on your back. Add reflector stripes to your helmet for riding at night.

True, true. Though I'd say the added bonus is that you won't lose the helmet:thumbup:. I also typically don't ride at night. Little more worried about not being able to see the road than others not seeing me, as funny as that might be. My one incident with night driving in heavy rain kind of shies me away from it, as I could not for the life of me see the lanes on the road(could also be my headlights were weak).

 

[Noctis3880]

One recommendation to me(from a motorcycle forum) was the Motoport Ultra II Air Mesh Kevlar series. The one-piece suit was recommended first off, but I personally want the two-piece(jacket and pants) so I don't have to strip it on and off on the campus lot.

There is a limitation from what I can tell. The gear itself is not water-repelling and depends on a liner for that feature. The liner is purchased separately. Because of the high tendencies of sudden showers, as well as the tendency for weather conditions to vary wildly from mile to mile, I'd expect the liners would need to be worn constantly for consistent protection from the rain. And given potential heat issues, I'd probably wear the liners in lieu of usual clothing.

The PROs however, are also quite glaring. There are accounts(firsthand) of a guy eating it at 70 mph, sliding 200 ft, and the gear comes off only needing a slight patch up(a service the maker offers), so it's quite likely that this is the one and only riding gear I'll ever need to buy. Whereas I'm sure Fieldsheer doesn't offer repair services and is a "use once, then toss" policy. And last of all, it's Made in the USA. Given the numerous customization options ranging from extra pockets to where you want the reflective tapes(sizing is also custom, but you'd have to measure it yourself very carefully, size is adjustable after production too), I'd say the fit and design would have some flexibility as well(perhaps waterproof lining for the pockets?).

Just that the total cost is about $455 more than what I'm looking at right now. So roughly the cost of one semi-custom folding knife, which probably isn't too hefty an investment. But at that point, the gear really will cost almost as much as the scooter.

 

[Bob W]

Insulation no, I doubt it gets that cold even in the winter(a little chilly perhaps, but not cold cold). I like a slight bit of armor though, given the tendency to stick out your hands/arms to break a fall.

Motorcycle gloves with shell armor are only armored on the knuckle side; the palm side obviously has to be sensitive and flexible.

Look at the Tourmaster Airflow gloves. Not made for high-speed racing accidents, but just right for warm weather around-town protection. $26.

Gloves are also tricky for me, I can't buy any without trying them on in person.

A pity. But I wonder how practical that is. A local shop probably doesn't have the helmet I'd want, much less a high end brand. And even then there's no guarantee that they have the size you need(I typically have this issue with pants, being a waist 36 with 30 inseams).

If you get to a shop and at least figure out what brand and size you need, you can order the specific colors. There are a relatively small number of motorcycle helmet brands; I'm confident any large dealership in Hawaii will have a decent selection.
https://www.google.com/search?q=motorcycle+dealers+in+honalulu
Montgomery has Shoei and HJC. I'd go there.

A Shoei helmet costs around $400+ for us gargantuan round head types.
A nice HJC is under $200, and some are closer to $100. They charge a bunch extra for the fancy color trim.

I actually tried to start with an HJC because I liked their vents better. Had to send it back after my upper jawbone went numb after five minutes.

You haven't mentioned anything about a riding class.

Did you go to the library for those books I mentioned earlier?

 

[Sid Post]

Whereas I'm sure Fieldsheer doesn't offer repair services and is a "use once, then toss" policy. And last of all, it's Made in the USA.

Fieldsheer is better than nothing but, it isn't very high quality. There is no reason to repair it after some asphalt surfing because there won't enough left to repair.

 

[Sid Post]

You haven't mentioned anything about a riding class.

The Motorcycle Safety Foundation class should be a requirement for all motorcycle riders. I had multiple dealers try to convince to take demo rides without a license and I flatly refused until I had both my license and the MSF course. The best money spent of safety gear is the money spent between your ears so you never have to test the integrity of your jacket, gloves, helmet, etc.

 

[Sid Post]

One recommendation to me(from a motorcycle forum) was the Motoport Ultra II Air Mesh Kevlar series. The one-piece suit was recommended first off, but I personally want the two-piece(jacket and pants) so I don't have to strip it on and off on the campus lot.

A one piece suit is what you want if you ever go down as speed. The Professional gear that zips the pants and jacket together is a close second. If you go down butt first, the jacket will ride up your body and expose your lower back in many cases.

There is a limitation from what I can tell. The gear itself is not water-repelling and depends on a liner for that feature. The liner is purchased separately. Because of the high tendencies of sudden showers, as well as the tendency for weather conditions to vary wildly from mile to mile, I'd expect the liners would need to be worn constantly for consistent protection from the rain. And given potential heat issues, I'd probably wear the liners in lieu of usual clothing.

I ride AGATT (All The Gear All The Time) which in summer in Arizona means ambient air temperatures over a 100 degrees with asphalt running 140-150 degrees (too hot for normal shoes or you will burn your feet). I'd rather sweat in my safety gear than chance road rash.

With my white Shoei helmet, yellow leather gloves and jacket, fluorescent green vest, ... is pretty hard to miss me. I never thought much about it until one day standing in line at the grocery store, the older lady behind me asked if I was the crazy guy that wore the full face helmet, jacket, etc. that was harsh on the eyes. How did I keep from melting .....

Just that the total cost is about $455 more than what I'm looking at right now. So roughly the cost of one semi-custom folding knife, which probably isn't too hefty an investment. But at that point, the gear really will cost almost as much as the scooter.

After one good case of road rash, you won't care about the cost of your gear. My knee braces cost enough to pay for a custom knife but, they were much better value to me. With a bad knee, can you work and earn a living? How do you deal with the chronic pain? Yes, my knee braces were well worth the cost.