Riggers, Sailors, Rope, Mariner, Marinera, Taponera Knives.........

[I'mSoSharp]

Some time ago this thread - https://www.bladeforums.com/threads/traditional-portuguese-slipjoint.1084885/ started with a question about the use for the knife below.

A Portuguese slip-joint Cisco Kid had bought.
I suggested a rope knife in the thread but since then I've learnt more about this blunt shape blade that seems prevalent in Spain, & found three different explanations on it's history & use.

Below are two I have, friction folders made by D.Benito, Badajoz, Spain, they call it a "Taponera" a "tapón" being a stopper which refers to it historically being used cutting bottle corks in the cork industry where a pointed blade isn't needed. This name is in fairly common use to describe these blades.

Below is a YouTube video in Spanish (you don't have to watch it), a gentleman explains why the "machete" blade as he calls it came into being, he's quite adamant that in Albacete (knife making capitol in Spain) "in the last quarter of the nineteenth century" due to civil unrest that a law was put into force banning the carrying of any pointed blade capable of stabbing & now it's purely a historical throwback.

Spoiler: Video

.

Below are more images of this style old & new.

And lastly there is what I'd thought for some time, a rope knife so while being tossed around at sea one doesn't impale oneself by accident. That's also the same as a Sailors, Riggers, Mariners knife or as they are referred to sometimes in Spain a Marinera.

So they are either Cork stopper knives (Taponera), the only knife legal to carry at one time being non-stabby or a boat knife.
Take your pick......... . Of course, it could be all three!

 

[Ratatoskr]

That is interesting.
I've heard that tossing about on a yardarm is not a great place for a pointy knife, but another (eponymous) reason I've heard for the development of the sheepsfoot, or generally non-pointy knife, is that the tips were broken off onboard ships so that the inevitable fights between crew members didn't end in fatalities so often.

 

[Jolipapa]

That is interesting.
I've heard that tossing about on a yardarm is not a great place for a pointy knife, but another (eponymous) reason I've heard for the development of the sheepsfoot, or generally non-pointy knife, is that the tips were broken off onboard ships so that the inevitable fights between crew members didn't end in fatalities so often.

I'm afraid but this was not true, at least for the French Navy (sorry for trolling the thread). This was the official Navy knife, by ministerial decision, until WWI, that is the demise of sail.

 

[Just Tom.]

I don’t know if the idea of pointy knives being prohibited by law is reality or myth, but this Italian version claims to be legal per what I take to be some sort of legal code (Fraraccio, photo by online vendor):

 

[Jack Black]

I'm afraid but this was not true, at least for the French Navy (sorry for trolling the thread). This was the official Navy knife, by ministerial decision, until WWI, that is the demise of sail.

Several traditional Sailor's fixed blade patterns are still manufactured in Sheffield. Most have a very obvious point!

 

[I'mSoSharp]

I'm not for one moment claiming that all maritime blades are/were blunt, that would be stupid like saying all pruning knives are hooked, so with all due respect posting images of pointed Mariner knives doesn't really prove or dispel anything.

These knives ARE referred to as Mariners, Sailors or Riggers knives, that's fact, right or wrong you can't argue with what they have come to be called. If you have solid information why that's wrong, or other names for these knives that'd be great.

As stated they are also called Taponera's or Stopper knives for the cork industry, again fact.

I don’t know if the idea of pointy knives being prohibited by law is reality or myth, but this Italian version claims to be legal per what I take to be some sort of legal code (Fraraccio, photo by online vendor):

While looking into the Spanish law I found mention of a similar law in Italy, so that's interesting. Thanks J Just Tom.
Can anyone read Italian & care to have a Google?

 

[Jack Black]

Sadly, most of the photos are now missing from this old thread of Charlie waynorth 's , but if you can wade through it, there is some excellent discussion, with solid references, about Navy knives, square-ended blades, etc

 

[Just Tom.]

While looking into the Spanish law I found mention of a similar law in Italy, so that's interesting. Thanks J Just Tom.
Can anyone read Italian & care to have a Google?

I don’t read Italian, but I got the following from the product description on the maker’s website:

L’utilizzo di coltelli senza punta (mozzetta) si sviluppò in seguito alla legge Giolitti del 1908 che dettava norme stringenti sul porto di coltelli. Successivamente, dopo l’abrogazione della norma, un nuovo regolamento, quello di Pubblica Sicurezza N° 62/81, ne disciplinò il porto. Riprese vigore la costruzione di coltelli privi di punta, chiamati “Permesso dalla Legge” che ancora oggi riportano tale dicitura impressa sulla lama.

This is what an online translator gives me:

The use of knives without a tip (mozzetta) developed following the Giolitti law of 1908 which dictated stringent rules on the carrying of knives. Subsequently, after the repeal of the law, a new regulation, that of Public Security No. 62/81, regulated the port [carry???]. The construction of knives without a tip, called "Permission by Law" resumed, which still today bear this wording imprinted on the blade.

 

[I'mSoSharp]

Sadly, most of the photos are now missing from this old thread of Charlie waynorth 's

Thanks for that JB, your link doesn't work but I found the thread here- https://www.bladeforums.com/threads/world-war-i-navy-issue-knife.1344687/
I could have posted on that thread but I didn't know it existed, currently reading through it, such a shame when images disappear.......

I got the following from the product description on the maker’s website:

Brilliant Tom, it's looks like in Italy a very similar situation occurred shortly after what happened in Spain with a similar law.

All three names could be genuine (Boat, Cork & Law), the style could already have existed for one task then adopted for another as the need arose, being called by the name of what it was then used for instead.

It's not hard to imagine that the Cork knife or Maritime knife was already being made & in use when the Spanish or Italian laws were introduced, these knives simply became the most suitable knife to use to conform to the law.

All three historical uses & names could be correct, I just imagine one came first & they weren't developed independent of one another, but that's just speculation on my part.

 

[pistonsandgears]

 

[Jack Black]

Thanks for that JB, your link doesn't work but I found the thread here- https://www.bladeforums.com/threads/world-war-i-navy-issue-knife.1344687/
I could have posted on that thread but I didn't know it existed, currently reading through it, such a shame when images disappear.......

I'm really sorry about messing up the link, not sure what happened there I don't think the 'Search' function is what is was, and it really is such a shame what has happened to the old threads, with many of them being effectively destroyed There are some big gaps in the discussion in that thread, but I think it has some good information