Rip offs

mendezj

mendezj

Joined
Nov 24, 1998
Messages
993
Good thing that it is just now that I find this place. It has been over a year since I bought my last custom made knife, and a year since I decided not to buy one again. I got sick and tired of being ripped off by crooks passing as custom knife makers. Not all makers are crooks, of course, but too many certainly should be making knives in hell, as far as I am concerned. A year ago, I would have used this site to denounce these thieves. They know who they are because I'm sure they read this forum. I wrote Dalton Holder providing names but he never answered. Well, my name is Juan Mendez S. and, again, I wish I would have had this site for making public who are the makers out there ripping people off. I'm sure this place will benefit the trade immensely because the crooks will be exposed for everyone to see. Great!! Maybe I'll start buying knives again. By the way, my respects for two of the best artisans and people I have ever dealt with: Tony Bose and Bill Keeton. These two guys are really special people whom I had the privilege to know when buying knives. It is a shame though that the rotten apples spoil the trade for the good guys like Tony and Bill. But I believe sites like this one will help clean up the business.
 
Who ripped you off? I would like to know so as not to get ripped off either. Please let everyone know the details and what actions you took to resolve the problem. Thanks.

Alex
 
Hi Juan,

I would like to know who these indviduals are. I may be able to help you get your knife or your money back. Depending on the circumstances you may be able to involve law enformcement agencies such as the Postal Inspectors (bad boys to have after you).

Try not to slam the individuals, just state the facts.



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Les Robertson
Robertson's Custom Cutlery
http://www.robertsoncustomcutlery.com/rcc/makers.shtml
It is easier to get things done with a kind word and a knife, than with a kind word alone!

 
Yeah Juan,

Let us have it.

Just the straight up facts.

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Regards,
Ron Knight

Yeah I'm crazy, but what do you want me to do about it
 
As I mentioned in my original post, some two years ago I wrote Dalton Holder with names and details of my experiences with several unscrupulous guild members. He never answered my letter, he must have had his reasons. I rather not start a quarrel at this late stage of the game, I don't want to open old wounds. Nevertheless, I'm very happy that it will be much harder for these rip off artists to get away with their crooked ways. At least now we can make public the kind of scams they pretend to get away with.

Would you be happy if you pay over two hundred dollars for a custom folder, and in return you receive in the mail a knife with Ivory Micarta slabs encrusted with metal particles from a dirty buffing wheel, and the top springs totally uneven in a way you don't even find in a $15 knife? You send the knife back and the "maker" charges you for correcting the mistakes!! Or you order a knife to a Florida maker and he sends you a knife totally different from the one you ordered (and flaws like you could stick the broad end of a toothpick between the blade and the guard), and when you send it back you get insults and threats from the "maker". Not to mention the trashy knife I ended up having to keep. Or you pay over two hundred and fifty dollars for a very simple folder, and the knife arrives with a blade that wiggles loose in between the bolsters but when you send it back for adjustment you get insulted and told how ignorant you are because you cannot appreciate the quality of such masterpiece (significant piece of trash).... Or, this from one of the best known and famous makers, you get a five hundred dollars simple straight blade knife with the sorriest looking sheath I had ever seen and when I sent the sheath back, again insults and threats... These guys are believers of the "the best defense is a good offensive" maxim. Nasty crooks. All of them guild members I regret to say. See, I figured that ordering from guild members was some kind of warranty... not so. Again, I got nothing against all guild memebers, or against the guild, and I have a great deal of respect for the honest ones, which probably are the majority of them. But some are not honest, and certainly not honorable. I guess at the end it is all for the best. Now I only buy knives from Bose and Keeton and I get the best knives I've ever seen (folders fron Tony, staight blade knives from Bill). End of story, got to go clean my Beretta. Plenty of ducks at this time of the year in my end of the woods.

 
The only maker I can think of who does horrible sheaths (he admits it himself) is Ron Gaston. I believe he only does fixed blades- but I also think a $500 Gaston wouldn't be that simple- would probably be a tad dressed up. Also, Rons knives are so nice- I would be happy if the knife came wrapped in anything (as long as it was soft).
 
Juan,

This is why bad knifemakers can continue to exsist. They know the customer they ripped off will never tell who they are.

By not telling who they are, no one can help you. If you are not willing to stand up and defend yourself, then you get what you deserve.

Les

[This message has been edited by Les Robertson (edited 09 March 1999).]
 
I agree with Les 100%. Old wounds may be hard to open, but it is obvious they are still festering. The responsible thing to do is document everything in your knife purchase as specifically as possible in writing. There should be a paper trail of communication between yourself & the maker (or at least an electronic email trail)detailing the materials, size, design & expected finish date.

This is just good business, and pertains no more to knife makers than it does to any other business transactions. The problem frequently is that knife makers often have little or no business experience. (I'm sure Les can comment on this)

With this paper trail, it becomes simple to document problems if they occur & resolve problems (legally if necessary) easily. The most important thing is to represent the facts, not the emotions which usually only interfere with conflict resolution.

Finally, price has nothing to do with quality. Some custom makers live on in their name & produce knives of no greater quality, but certaintly greater prestige. Better production knives have very high quality, but lack that intangible feel that a great custom maker imparts to his / her knives.

At the same time, we should expect a reasonable level of quality in our custom knives, and Guild Members should be held accountable to uphold the highest though & in fact that in itself adds to the standards. We should not expect perfection uniqueness of our custom knives.

Don't give up on custom knives. Be a smart, educated buyer, & treat a purchase as any other business transaction.

Drew
 
I've never bought a knife from Gaston. I appreciate your interest in uncovering these thieves, however, let's not look back. Then I wrote D. Holder a letter with every name and detail. Nevertheless, I'm very pleased to know that in the future these guys can be denounced in a public forum of this nature.
 
Sorry to hear about your bad experiences Juan.
frown.gif


I believe you've come to the right place. On this forum you can screen potential purchases by asking members opinions and by looking in the BladeForum FAQs and resources.

This is a great place for exchanging information. There is a protocol developing now and a separate forum for the Good, the Bad and the Ugly knife buying situations.

I hope your membership here help you avoid any future bad experiences in knife buying.
smile.gif
 
Well since we don't know who they are, someone else may buy their knives, and be stuck with a "lemon". Maybe the next person who happens upon these unknown makers will let us know who they are.
Blades
 
Almost like a forumite has some responsibility to the rest of the forumites to tell it like it is. Sounds right to me too, Blades - good point.

The hard part here, it's way after the fact. Make's it harder to call.
 
Way after the facts, you are right. But if there is a next time, believe me, I'll be so happy to post it here.
 
Juan...
I'm not flaming you, but I don't understand why you bothered to post this thread if you aren't going to follow thru. At least tell Les in private...he is like a mother bear about the custom knife business and takes great pain to keep it on the up and up.
 
Hi DC,

Juan has already emailed me the individuals names. I am going to talk with Bob Terzuola, as he is a Guild Board member, at the ECCK Show.

By the way DC are you coming?

Oh, I appreciate how it was meant. But cant we go with Pa Pa Bear as opposed to Mother Bear! <G>

They now have the Good, Bad and the Ugly forum. This would be the place to post both positive and negative. When you post a Negative, make sure you have your facts straight and dont slam (well not the first go around anyway).



------------------
Les Robertson
Robertson's Custom Cutlery
http://www.robertsoncustomcutlery.com/rcc/makers.shtml
I thought I was wrong once, but I was mistaken.
 
Les -- I hope you get to post your result of your talk with Mr. Terzoula. I, for one, would be very interested to know the what the Guild will do to prevent another problem like Juan's.
 
Hi Les;
Hope you had a good show experience !
I to, would be interested in your conversation with Robert Terzoula .

FO
 
Hi Guys,

Check the post from a couple days ago titled:
Getting Your Emerson Knife....Maybe!



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Les Robertson
Robertson's Custom Cutlery
http://www.robertsoncustomcutlery.com/rcc/makers.shtml
I thought I was wrong once, but I was mistaken.
 
My $.02, -or- 4 Bits of Advise, as you please.

********************************************

1) Do not buy a custom knife by mail. Would you buy fine art by mail? A custom knife is art. Go to a large Knife show, or large cutlery store that carries "customs" and buy only a knife that feels and looks good to you.

2) Buy by mail only carry knives such as Benchmade, Spyderco, etc. You will pay a lot less and not get ripped off. If there is a problem they will fix it.

3) Expect to see variation, as long as what you see and feel pleases you, a reasonable amount of variation is "normal" (e.g. in statistics this is described by the "normal curve" of variation). Obviously, too much variation is a bad thing. In manufacturing too much variation results in "scrap" or "rework". Sounds to me like you dealt with a "custom" maker who did not like to waste material. Plane and simple, as in all business, the buyer beware.

4) Trust in God, all others pay cash.

Greenie
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"Walk softly and carry a big stick"...TR
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Edited 23 Mar 1999; Greenie

In deference to Les Robertson's comments, I grant that there are surely trustworthy custom makers out there. Also, living in New York I am probably spoiled, in that I can easily drive to several large metropolitan areas and back in the same day (e.g. NYC, Albany, Syracuse, Rochester, Buffalo, etc.). If I had to buy by mail I would do so, but with great trepedation. Perhaps information on which Custom Makers are approved by the Knifemakers Guild published in the forum might be in order. Perhaps this information is already available, but I have not found it.

[This message has been edited by greenie (edited 23 March 1999).]

[This message has been edited by greenie (edited 30 March 1999).]
 
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