Ripping off American Steel?

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Dec 31, 2004
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Lately we've seen several knives coming from Red China labeled as made with 440C stainless steel. I notice the new Kershaw Outcast is a Chinese made knife labeled as made from D2. These are American steels made by Crucible. It is counterintuitive to me that Kershaw or anybody else would ship steel to China and then ship it back in form of finished knives. I can't help but wonder if the Chinese haven't started making steels with Crucible's formulae and names? Comments?
 
I am not sure how many companies make these steels other than Crucible, but I know that Admiral do. It is highly likely that the Chinese are making these steels themselves.
 
As others have said, there are many designations for various steels out there, D2 for example is also known as 1.2379, X155CrVMo12-1 and under many other designations. D2 is merely SAE-AISI (Society of Automotive Engineers; American Iron and Steel Institute) designation, if i'm not mistaken. In addition to abovementioned American manufacturers it's produced in EUrope as well and i have no doubt CHinese and Japanese also it make for their own use.
 
Blades_Two said:
Lately we've seen several knives coming from Red China labeled as made with 440C stainless steel. I notice the new Kershaw Outcast is a Chinese made knife labeled as made from D2. These are American steels made by Crucible. It is counterintuitive to me that Kershaw or anybody else would ship steel to China and then ship it back in form of finished knives. I can't help but wonder if the Chinese haven't started making steels with Crucible's formulae and names? Comments?


I have D2 in my shop from Olympic and Timken Latobe. D2 steel is not exclusive to Crucible. D2 was devloped before WWII and 440C in the 50's. Even the most generous patents would have expired many years ago.
 
"I still avoid all knives with the "China" label on them."

In the coming years that will be increasingly difficult to do.
I'm sure you have all manner of items in your house that were made in China - why not knives.

It's a shame. Over the forseeable future China will be the primary supplier of goods that were once manufactured in other areas of Asia - Europe and the USA. If your kids learn to speak Chinese they might find a good job when they leave college.
 
440C is an abbreviation of 51440C, an AISI designation. Any steel with elements falling within the listed ranges may be called 440C. Crucible uses "Airdi 150" as their brand name for D2.

You can make 440C and D2, too, if you want. If you make them for lower costs than Kershaw's current supplier, maybe they'll buy from you. I'll buy from you, too. Especially if you offer a blanking surface.
 
averageguy said:
If your kids learn to speak Chinese they might find a good job when they leave college.

Only if they want to work in child slave labor camps.

WYK
 
WYK said:
Only if they want to work in child slave labor camps.

WYK

That's a pretty racist thing to say...
You're obviously pretty limited in your scope of understanding so I'm going to make this as simple for you as I can...

Not all chinese people are in the People's replublic of China, or are from there...
 
thombrogan said:
You can make 440C and D2, too, if you want. If you make them for lower costs than Kershaw's current supplier, maybe they'll buy from you.
I was thinking that Kershaw has no problem in supplying its own steel ;)
 
A recent issue of Blade magazine reviewed the Paul Chen Quandong folder by Hanwei. It looked pretty cool, price was right so I bought it. It's a nice knife. Three inch long blade, but quite wide, over 1", and it's a fairly thick blade, so it has a pleasant feeling of forward weight.

My knives only see light duty, so I can't really vouch for the performance of the steel, but it's supposed to be 440c. It's the first unashamedly Chinese knife that I've bought and liked.
 
Andy_L said:
what will you all do when china makes better knives then the USA?

Personally, I don't see that happening. What I do see happening is the Chinese starting to produce good knives at lower prices than American companies can compete with. This will force American companies to either lower their costs, aim their marketing at only the high end of the market, or to shut down business. The way they will lower their costs is to outsource the manufacture of their knives to countries like China. Kind of a win, win situation for China.
 
"Personally, I don't see that happening."

I'm drawing a blank and I only collect fixed blades. But I can't think of many made in the USA knives that the Chinese couldn't make today.
Most manufacturers and an increasing number of makers are relying on CNC and other machines for a majority of the work. I know the Chinese can operate / make these machines as American manufacturers are already outsourcing some work.
It's not rocket science - the Chinese are more advanced here than most countries.
It's craftsmanship - pride - quality control - an engineering / design team - a good manager - an intelligent / knowledgeable leader / owner. Not out of reach for the Chinese or any nation or peoples.
Yes, they can do it for less - a lot less, that's the shame.

Cheap labor, yes, it's the consequence of a large population. Like any resource, the more there is - the less it's worth.
While illegal immigration is the greatest immediate threat to this country - an ever increasing world population is the greatest threat to the standard of living for all.
This is a world of finite resources. As the number of people increase the share of the pie for most will be increasingly smaller.

Just over 100 years ago there were only 1 billion people in the world.

It took 10,000 years for the population to reach the 1 billion mark.

In just the past 100 years the population has increased to almost 7 billion people.

It is difficult to imagine.
As you experience your world today, think about the effect this rapidly increasing population has on your day to day life.
Fuel / heating costs - traffic - a deserted beach, not many of these left - water rights, an ever smaller middle class as a percentage of the population as a whole, just a very few of the more obvious effects stateside.

Think about the effect to all people.
20,000 children today will die because of contaminated water sources - 20,000 more will die from hunger.
Fish once a staple food is increasingly a luxury food.

When I think about world population, I'm reminded of some cat food I left out.
At first it was a bowl of food - then a bowl of food with some maggots - then a bowl of maggots.

When we see commercials on TV they play to our innate desire for a world with less people. The SUV's in the wilderness - the sports car on the empty highway (with no speed limits), not another soul, vehicle or structure in sight.
Vacation commercials depicting isolated beaches, etc..

Why don't I hear more about population issues you may be asking yourself.
Two main reasons - greed and religion. Unlikely partners but conspiring together to make the problem worse.
Large corporations require an ever growing consumer base and the Catholic church and other churches / religions (I am a confirmed Catholic) do not promote family planning.
 
i got a chance to feel the new buck mayo's. they are made in china and use 440C. seemed like good stuff. around 35-40 dollars. i wouldn' thesitate to buy one. but i am a big fan of their collabarations.
 
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