risk vs reward

James Sass

James Sass

Joined
Aug 28, 1999
Messages
519
This is stemming from the other thread on self-defense weapon carry.

I live and work in such a neighborhood that I would not hesitate to own/carry firearms illegally if that were my only option - and my neighborhood is nothing compared to some I've been in .... but you know what, I would say the same if I lived in Mayberry, USA.

Its amusing to me that laws regarding marijuana possession have dropped to being a slap on the wrist because so many people possess and use marijuana for so long... what if everyone decided to bear arms regardless of BS laws? Civil disobedience? Weaponeers are shown up by potheads?

I recall during the Reagan (bless him!) administration - there was a supreme court controversy regarding flag burning - Louisiana took its own initiative, not by making flag-burning illegal (that would be unconstitutional), but by reducing assault charges against anyone assaulting someone who was burning a flag - something about "righteous indignation."

What if our local judicial bodies reduced charges against anyone assaulting street-corner drug dealers, or better yet reducing charges against anyone who SHOOTS, STABS, OR BEATS a mugger or burgler (even if the scum ceases to exist)?

"righteous indignation"???

The crime-rate would sure drop.

Naw... lets give them AC, TV, and a weight bench for a couple years.
 
Mr. Sass

Your home state of Florida has a unique CCW law. I have applied for a Florida CCW and am currently residing in North Carolina. This is provided for in the Florida Law. The CCW is recognized in 19 States, the NC CCW I posess is recognized in Virginia. I wonder if we will ever have the opportunity to obtain a Federal CCW good for the entire US. (clarify: this does not exist, just wishful thinking on my part).
 
An interesting thought I have only thunk through part of the way:

It is interesting how a governing body can be set up with the intent to not screw the people over, to arm the people so that an oppressive government or other forms of oppression are less liekly to be formed, etc. but once that governing body is formed, it becomes an animal with self-preservation in mind. Hmm... the peopel with weapons? Hey, they could take us down! Better do what we can to take weapons away from the people. Hmm.. vigilante justice? NO WAY! That is peopel taking law into their own hands, when clearly the use of force must be the exclusive right of the government. I mean, what if the people used force against us? And so on.

One person I know said that governing is striking a balance between all of the wants and such of the people. I'd liek to think that governments are set up to protect the weak, help foster a positive environmebt so that people can live good lives, and so on. We have work to do yet.
 
Crayola hits on an excellent point; where a government usually begins as an instrument to allow it's citizens to lead fulfilling lives it usually morphs into an institution that is mainly concerned with perpetuating itself. Often, it is not a deliberate or nefarious process - organizations simply seem to evolve that way. Schools, law, unions - they'e all done it. Read Carroll Quigley's "The Evolution of Civilizations" for a pretty good exposition of this. Then look around you and see it in action.
Mr. Sass's idea already exists - jury nullification. Not as satisfying as an elbow to the forehead but legal and precedent-setting. It sends a very clear message as to how a community views certain acts. A preponderance of those who serve on juries can effectively set the latitude of the law.
Sometimes you get an OJ decision - but there's sediment in even the finest wine.
 
well said, squirrel. (about juries) the last pure bastion of policy (more correctly, adjudication of laws)
 
Originally posted by HAMMERHEAD2
Mr. Sass

Your home state of Florida has a unique CCW law. I have applied for a Florida CCW and am currently residing in North Carolina. This is provided for in the Florida Law. The CCW is recognized in 19 States, the NC CCW I posess is recognized in Virginia. I wonder if we will ever have the opportunity to obtain a Federal CCW good for the entire US. (clarify: this does not exist, just wishful thinking on my part).
Click to expand...
Florida is a great place regarding weapons - you can OPENLY carry a Samurai sword as long as you don't "Brandish" it. "brandishing" is defined as something like "waving around menacingly or in angry or agitated state."

Florida also has a good court record in siding with the right person in self-defense issues.

Awhile back in Miami - a record store owner was subject to repeated burglaries by one perpetrator - the police would arrest him, as soon as he was out he would break into the record store again - he was obviosly off kilter and obsessed - the recordstore owner rigged a metal plate (or large pan of water, i forget) with an extension cord - the next time the burglar entered he was electrocuted to death - the courts acquitted the record store owner.

The fact that Florida, in terms of a geographical land-body, is basically a loading dock for the drug trade - they have more important fish to fry.

All we have to do is keep the demented fascist/communist cow JANET RENO out of the govener's mansion.
 
In a perfect world the death of a criminal by whatever means ,while comitting a violent crime against a citizen, should be considered a job related hazard for the criminal.

My home state does allow the use of deadly force to protect ones property. I have to remember that most states do not when I travel.
 
All we have to do is keep the demented fascist/communist cow JANET RENO out of the govener's mansion.
Click to expand...

AMEN!

BTW, James, did you ever receive my email concerning that Blackjack dirk?
 
Leo, yes I did get that email - I had a lot of email today and haven't had a chance to respond yet - THANKS for the heads up!

I just picked up 3 new knives this week - about 2 more than I needed.
 
The firearms ownership / carry debate has gathered steam on this forum.

And the vast majority of opinons and observations have been well considered and presented.

At my end, for the sake of discussion, I've long adhered to the premise that a well armed society is a polite society. The Old West has great appeal to me in this regard and I personally believe we lost a great deal of a better society and criminal justice system when the "polite society" of the East Coast overwhelmed the frontier society of the western and southern states...when it was safe for them to do so.

With that in mind I also believe in living in the real world whatever that world may be at the time. Today is not yesterday, and tomorrow will no doubt bring changes - good or bad - with it. This is why I advocate a multi-layered system of self protection and defense. Why I advocate arming one's self with head knowledge as well as hardware. Why I advocate being creative within the confines of the "system" to accomplish good self defense and protection measures regardless of the means preferred.

If I don't indulge in the debate from any other viewpoint I trust those attending the Forum will understand why.

I've never found it necessary to become shrill on the subject because I've trained myself, my troops, my students, and my friends to be self-sufficent regardless of the circumstances or situation. Those who know me know I'm the last one to be termed by anyone as a non-activist when there's a good cause to rally behind. I just find talking endlessly about any subject is not as productive and potentially fun as DOING something positive and constructive about the same.

And so I teach selected students and others from the professional side of the house how to legally own, use, possess, and maintain their firearms, for example. Have done so for many years now. Plan to continue doing so for many more.

If my style of going about protecting our right as Americans to keep and bear arms is different than someone else's, I trust they'll allow me the privilege of being an individual in this respect.

Which is what the Old West was really very much about.

I should really sit down and write a book about modern gunslinging:p
 
Eloquently put, Sierra. A question: is "old west" just the frontier? I confess ignorance of the east coast in those days, insofar as personal protection. Was it common - or legal - for adults to walk about armed with a firearm in the cities and how was weapon/deadly force usage viewed in Boston, NYC, etc.?
Certainly compared to today it was a different world, but between King Philip's War and the closing of the frontier - how did the "West" differ from the "East" ?
 
In general, the pioneers and explorers moved west for any number of reasons to include escape from what was becoming a far more codified and "civilized" society on the east coast. The west promised - as did the east coast for the original settlers from England - the freedom to be free in a number of ways becoming, in many peoples' minds, otherwise impossible.

Even after the west was "settled" the urge for this level of freedom saw Alaska as "The Last Frontier" and those yearning for exceptional freedom from society/authority headed north.

Lots of good books on the subject. Check 'em out.
 
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