RLW-34 vs S30V blade..

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dannyvi

Joined
Oct 28, 2005
Messages
311
Which would be a better choice? I plan to get one folder from Jens Anso and he has a choice of these two blades. Anybody use any ?:confused: Which???
 
I'm also curious. Why don't you ask him about the differences? ;) Later you can share this information with us too.
 
I believe from what I have read here that RLW-34 is closely similar to CPM154 which is from what I have read is a little behind S30V in edge retention and wear resistance, but is more corrosion resistant and takes a keener edge. So there are some trade offs between the two. I have a Spec Bump in CPM154 and absolutely love the steel and I have had S30V blades. I think the CPM154 takes a much keener edge and really haven't noticed any edge retention differance. Do a search on RWL-34 and decide for yourself. If the RWL-34 is cheaper then I would factor that in because in my opinion you are not losing much goin with it over S30V. Thanks.
 
A knifemaker told me, that he can make a knife with scandinavian edge from RWL-34. (Because it has finer particle structure than S30V.)
Really interesting, isn't it? ;)
 
Golbat said:
A knifemaker told me, that he can make a knife with scandinavian edge from RWL-34. (Because it has finer particle structure than S30V.)
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I have a S30V blade with the edge at half the angle of typical scandinavian ground bevels.

-Cliff
 
I was hoping for something from somebody that has used it more. I was told that the RWL34 is similar to the Ats 34 except that it has vanadium added to it and is also a powder steel made in Sweden. At least Jens Anso has that in his brochure. He offers that together with S30V as his basic steel. I do own some knives with S30V and I it's fine. Your right, I should get Jens personal opinion.
 
Here is what Jens told me in an email a few days ago:

Jens Anso said:
I prefer RWL-34 over S30V for a number of reasons....first it is a great steel that gets very very sharp and it is not too diffucult to do for the user. It is super strong and it can be finished very nicely with a handrubbed finish. I holds the edge very long also. I would think there is only a marginal difference for the normal user between the two steels. RWL-34 is btw excactly the same as the new CPM154CM.
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Personally, I'm going with RWL-34 because he seems to have a lot of faith in it and I trust that he knows more than I do about knifemaking. It's his preferred steel for a reason, and I feel like the finished product is best when the artist uses his favored materials.
 
dannyvi said:
I was hoping for something from somebody that has used it more. I was told that the RWL34 is similar to the Ats 34 except that it has vanadium added to it and is also a powder steel made in Sweden. At least Jens Anso has that in his brochure. He offers that together with S30V as his basic steel. I do own some knives with S30V and I it's fine. Your right, I should get Jens personal opinion.
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I have one of each steel and would clearly prefer RWL 34. I never had the chipping problems with it like i had with the S30V. The S30V chipping is minor but noticable.

The RWL34 was boring because you don´t need to maintain it a lot.

It is no wonder steel. It behaves like many others but the edge was better and stronger.

The RWL34 was about HRC 60, the S30V between HRC 58 and 60.

The RWL34 was custom but not custom heat treated. The S30V was how Benchmade does it.

Never did i found S30V to be more edge holding like RWL 34. Maybe if you only do slicing cuts the microsaw is better but cutting always includes pushed cuts. The RWL34 did a better job.

sharper, finer, stronger, longer.

A high temperature ht is recommended by Damasteel, ask Anso about this.
 
Cliff Stamp said:
How much cheaper is the RWl blade from Anso?

-Cliff
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I have an order for a Gekko with a 3 inch blade and the RWL-34 is his basic blade. He recommends it. He also said that it is exactly the same as the new CPM154 that was featured in a :thumbup: blade magazine that that are also preferred by some knifemakers. I am going with it.
 
:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup: I have two Ansos with it and it takes and holds a fine edge very well.

Anso2.jpg



IMG%5D
 
The main advantage of CPM154 promoted by Crucible is that it is easier to make knives out of than S30V, not that it offers superior performance as a blade steel as S30V is difficult to finish due to the low grindability. What I would like to see is performance comparisons from the makers on the two steels which you would assume were done before they would offer it.

-Cliff
 
Cliff you are correct in the proposition of CPM154, yet in Blade and other sources I have read is that CPM154 takes a keener edge. As far as retention it is whithin 10-15% of S30V, but with much as 25% more corrosion resistance. Also you can reach a higher HRC while maintaining the same tougness as the current 154cm. I have a spec bump in this steel and love it it iseasier to maintain the edge( now that I have it thinned out ) than S30V, and seems to have a toothier edge which makes it a wicked cutter. The other concern that many others including your self have is chipping with S30V unless it is treated right. I have had no concerns so far and I have used it to cut zip ties and other hard materials. Thanks.
 
Yes, I have seen bad S30V blades, it would not surprise me to have people prefer other steels to it if they have used blade similar to the worst ones I have seen and that others have reported. What I do find interesting about the promotion of CPM154 is that this isn't a new steel, RWL-34 has been available for a long time but S30V was used instead, but now CPM-154 is getting a push to replace it and is even getting promotion as a superior steel. I would like to see some materials data from makers and Crucible on S30V and CPM154 and RWL-34. Some of it is kind of contradictory though for example Crucible's new line about the complexity of heat treating S30V is in direct opposition of the initial promotion which had this as a positive attribute and that this steel, unlike S60/S90V was supposed to be made for knifemakers and specifically ease of heat treating. It was also promoted heavily for its toughness, and now CPM-154 is supposed to address a problem with S30V in regards to toughness? Why was S30V ever used instead of RWL-34?

-Cliff
 
My guess is popularity. RWL-34 is made overseas hence the slowness to adapt. I don't know, but how long was it before ZDP steels were being used in knives here in the states compared to when it was actually developed and sold? I think the big differance is CPM154 is a CRUCIBLE Steel. Any way I like it much more than S30V.
 
Harry, I made a few knives with RWL 134 and two so far with CPM154. Both steels make great blades. Both are easier to finish than than S30V. I also use a lot of 154CM mostly for fillet knives. I have found the edge retention for both RWL134 and CPM154 to be the same as 154CM at the same hardness. S30V has better edge retention than all of the above and if I were making the knife it would be my first choice even if it costs a little more. This is my opinon but every maker has his favorite steel. In this case I would take the reccommendation of the maker since he has developed a sense of what works best with his knives...PHIL
 
Thanks, Phil. I have a question for you. They say that CPM154 can be taken a point or two harder than standard 154cm. Have you tried this? I can imagine that it would be a little better on the retention. Thnaks.
 
Harry et al,

I used the same heat treat recipe for the 2 CM154 knives I made as I use for 154CM/ATS34. I got 61+ as quenched, picked up another pt in the subzero and tempered at 400 for a finish hardness of 60/61. To get a pt higher one would have to go to a higher temp and maybe a little longer. I am pushing the upper limit as it is (you can check out the complete HT info on my website). It may be that the reference to the ability to get it a little harder is based on the fact that most 154CM blades are done at 58/59. It seems to work great at 60/61, but this is based on just two blades. To go back to the edge holding of 154CM compared to CPM 154. I stated that they are equal. Again this is based on just 2 blades so to be fair I should do more work before making a flat statement like that. On paper CPM 154 should do better just based on the finer grain making a stronger edge that can support a lower angle sharpening. The BLADE article quoted in this thread said 10% better. I would argue that it is difficult to feel a 10% difference cutting rope or cardboard, or even with use in the field. The difference would have to be significant, maybe 20% for it to be obvious. I also wonder about the stated better corrosion resistance. With the same chemistry there has to be something else going on that again is not obvious. I keep and open mind on that one. I have never had a corrosion problem with 154CM, even with salt water knives so if CPM154 is equal to or even a little better that is good news. It again boils down to the best steel for the application. For a utility/hunter/slicer type knife where edge holding and corrosion resistance is important I would choose S30V, S-90V over either of the 154’s. I want those hard Vanadium carbides working for me. It is unfortunate that CPMS30V has taken such a beating lately. I do not think this is a steel or quality control problem. If it is heat treating or something else unknown to us then it is likely that this is not a problem unique to S30V.
154CM is a good choice for an EDU and I really like it for a fillet knives and kitchen knives as long as the hardness is up around 60. It looks like CPM154 is an improvement over 154CM at least in the workability, polish ability department. It’s sure nice to have all the choices. Phil
 
Thanks Phil you have explained alot. I try to read everything I can on a subject before I post. The only S30V blade that I have had was a Spyderco Manix. I really liked it alot and never had chipping problems. About the corrosion quote it was from someone explaining the added Vandium in CPM 154 that 154cm does not have. Phil can you email me your website link?
 
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