Rockstead RYO for EDC?

[brandoak]

I have the wonderful opportunity to purchase a Rockstead of my choice and I'm having second thoughts on which model to choose. I'm absolutely in love with the Rockstead RYO but im worried about the ZDP189 being to brittle of a blade for me to EDC.

Has anyone heard of a blade made from ZDP189 breaking yet?

Are they as brittle as a ceramic blade?

I recently read a review on the Rockstead RYO done by The Edge Observer http://www.edgeobserver.com/rockstead-ryo/

and it states ".......While seemingly the end goal for a steel, the result does compromise other desirable attributes. The first is accessibility. Using ZDP-189 and finishing it to these standards increases cost. Secondly, such a high hardness makes the steel more brittle since it lacks any real ductility, limiting application to lighter duties."

The last line really scares me,.. how lighter of duty knife are we talking about here?

 

[ncmiked]

I've edc'd a delica with zdp and had zero problems with the steel. Granted, not a direct comparison but maybe try one out before you take the plung on the Rockstead.

 

[The Aflac Duck]

Rocksteads ZDP will perform drastically different than Spydercos. Each Rocky's HRC is measured to exact numbers before being sold, and range in the 66-67+ hardness range for their ZDP. I would not use a ZDP Rocky like I would a ZDP Spyderco.

Yes, it will be brittle and may exhibit micro chipping while cutting certain types of cardboard, and it may exhibit more drastic chipping if doing something like cutting wood. Imagine if you drop it and ding the edge on something hard

You may have seen videos of Rockstead associates chopping bamboo or cutting rope with their knives, but there is more to it than that. The rope cutting is done with ZDP, while the bamboo chopping is done with YXR7 (a high-speed (ingot) steel with 0.8% Carbon...compared to 3.0% carbon in ZDP-189 (particle) steel). If you're just cutting soft materials like a gentemans folder might do, then ZDP will serve you well. However, if your typical edc tasks are varied from day to day, you may want to opt for YXR7.

Another thing to consider, is how will you sharpen the knife? Are you going to send it to Japan, or do it yourself? I would not recomend a Rocky if you're not an experienced freehand sharpener. Also, if you get a Ryo, how will you carry it? I thought about getting one myself, but I think the hidden clip makes the knife ride "backwards" in the pocket. That might be akward.

Anyways, I'd still strongly suggest a Rockstead, even if you decide against the Ryo. Personally, I'm a huge fan of their YXR7 in a Shinogizukuri grind:thumbup:

 

[brandoak]

Thank you ncmiked and Blues Bender, I appreciate the input. Blues Bender I was hoping you would chime in, Ive tried to read as much as I can here before asking questions, you seem to have a good grip on the Rocky line.
Wow, if its really that brittle I'm having trouble understanding there selling point. I was under the impression that paying almost 2G for a knife would get me a better knife. I'm an outdoor type person who likes to fish and camp. Im not the type to use a knife as a prybar but I would expect it to at least cut a hotdog roasting stick without chipping....

 

[thales2015]

I have both a Higo and Chi in ZDP-189 and have been quite happy with them - my daily usage fits the steel's strengths quite well. I cut packing tape, hard plastic, cardboard, cord, rope, zip-ties etc. on a regular basis and the edges have held up beautifully in performing such tasks (God Bless you for the help on that one Blues :thumbup: ). Personally, I feel like the "anxiety" over ZDP-189 is a bit overblown - it is, after all, Rockstead's flagship steel, and though many Rockys may not see much besides the inside of a safe (which is totally fine of course...they are very pretty after all and I like that aspect of them as much as anybody), it would seem to be a risky business model to build a company around folders you hope no-one ever uses because the steel is too brittle to handle said use. I personally don't need a very "tough" steel to cut what I encounter on a daily basis...so ZDP-189 was a nice choice - as, per Rockstead's own testimony, that steel will hold its edge while performing "soft" cutting tasks longer than YXR7. So, my suggestion, if I may, would just be to honestly assess what you need to cut on a daily basis and buy a knife with the steel that best fits those needs.

 

[brandoak]

Thanks thales2015, your daily cutting tasks mirror mine pretty closely, occasionally I may slice a piece of leather and whittle on some soft wood. You have reiterated just what Ive been thinking about how its there flagship steel,...ect.
Ive had files that have shattered after dropping them on concrete that have the same RW but as I understand it, Rockstead has some secret magical way of obtaining the high rockwell while still maintaining the resilience..(selling point?) Do you think Id have to worry about dropping it?
I do minor prying with my pocket knives,.... like taking out a tag staple on dimensional lumber...

 

[brandoak]

The pocket clip does bother me on the ryo but Im willing to give it a try. I also didn't like the button lock, but the more I think about it, the more it appeals to me. Having my thumb out of the way when I close it seems pretty smart..Ive nipped my thumb while closing my Insingo a few times now...

 

[thales2015]

I wouldn't think ZDP-189 would have much trouble with leather or soft wood (I've never cut leather, but have used my Higo for light whittling and sharpened a few pencils with it...(not sure if the later task counts )

As for the prying - that's not a cutting task, so I wouldn't go to my knife (especially a folder) for that...I'd rather use a key or some other "tool" to do those types of things...(perhaps the RYO's clip could be of use? )

 

[brownshoe]

Staples can chip or bend many fine edges irrespective of steel. If you must, pry with the spine so the edge touches the soft wood. I have ZDP done by William and Henry and use it for all EDC needs w/o any chipping. Their hardness is in the same range as Rockstead and it's a thin edge.

 

[Misanthropia]

My ZDP-189 Higo suffered a fair amount of edge damage/scratching from just cutting cardboard, but after realigning the apex a few times to get rid of the micro chipping, the edge seems much more stable.

I don't think Rockstead has the magical ability to make ZDP-189 at 66-67 HRC more durable than one would expect a steel at that high of a hardness to be. Nevertheless, the edge retention is very impressive given this.

In general, I would have preferred to have gotten a YXR7, both for the scratch resistance of the DLC and the increased edge stability.

 

[brandoak]

My ZDP-189 Higo suffered a fair amount of edge damage/scratching from just cutting cardboard, but after realigning the apex a few times to get rid of the micro chipping, the edge seems much more stable....... .

Ive heard this a few times now reading about Rockstead here on BF, it seems they share the same attribute with fallkniven's offerings in laminated 3G. That factory edge has to be worked off and resharpened for a more robust longer lasting edge.....my PHK looked abused after the first time I took it camping.....

Thank you for responding to my post and sharing your experience Mr. Misanthropia

 

[The Aflac Duck]

As for the prying - that's not a cutting task, so I wouldn't go to my knife (especially a folder) for that...I'd rather use a key or some other "tool" to do those types of things...(perhaps the RYO's clip could be of use? )

Companies should start making keys out of hardened CPM-3V Million dollar idea right there

Yes David, I do agree that the "anxiety" surrounding ZDP-189 is overblown; I may do it myself at times. I do wonder how a 67hrc ZDP-189 blade would handle a fall against concrete though (or YXR7 too). Either way, I've heard things about that steel regarding "chipping" that has never happened to my YXR7 blades though. The only way to know, is to put said steel through its paces like I do my other blades, but honestly, I'm a little worried I might ruin one of Rocky's ZDP edges.

Have any of you guys ever dropped your Rocky's with the blade opened? I've dropped mine quite a few times, but it was either a light fall against wood/laminate floors or a closed-blade fall on concrete or other hard surfaces.

 

[brandoak]

Staples can chip or bend many fine edges irrespective of steel. If you must, pry with the spine so the edge touches the soft wood....

Thanks brownshoe, good pointer here. There is definitely a trade off when considering carrying a finer knife for EDC vs a cheepy, Im shopping for a edc key-chain pry-bar. I dont want to spend this kinda money on a glass blade...Ive spent way too many mornings without my coffee and PBJ sandwiches for lunch saving for this.

 

[Czechmate]

Have any of you guys ever dropped your Rocky's with the blade opened? I've dropped mine quite a few times, but it was either a light fall against wood/laminate floors or a closed-blade fall on concrete or other hard surfaces.

That would be heart attack inducing for me; if a had a Rockstead to drop LOL! Gotta get one.

I dropped my full serrated ZDP endura edge down and it mashed the edge a little bit; not enough to worry about it too much IMHO. That was on pavement in the driveway. I know it's HRC is softer and the edge is probably thicker than a Rocky so maybe they'd suffer more damage. :thumbdn:

 

[brandoak]

Yep, its clear we need a destruction test done on a Rocky....for science....you guys help me pay for this one and Ill provide bi-monthly pictures of wear and Ill send you each a post card with cut tests......:thumbup:

 

[The Aflac Duck]

That would be heart attack inducing for me; if a had a Rockstead to drop LOL! Gotta get one.

I dropped my full serrated ZDP endura edge down and it mashed the edge a little bit; not enough to worry about it too much IMHO. That was on pavement in the driveway. I know it's HRC is softer and the edge is probably thicker than a Rocky so maybe they'd suffer more damage. :thumbdn:

Did the edge chip or roll? Where was the damage, at the tip of on the belly?

Yep, its clear we need a destruction test done on a Rocky....for science....you guys help me pay for this one and Ill provide bi-monthly pictures of wear and Ill send you each a post card with cut tests......:thumbup:

I'll donate a good bottle of bourbon to help with the guilt

 

[thales2015]

Companies should start making keys out of hardened CPM-3V Million dollar idea right there

Yes David, I do agree that the "anxiety" surrounding ZDP-189 is overblown; I may do it myself at times. I do wonder how a 67hrc ZDP-189 blade would handle a fall against concrete though (or YXR7 too). Either way, I've heard things about that steel regarding "chipping" that has never happened to my YXR7 blades though. The only way to know, is to put said steel through its paces like I do my other blades, but honestly, I'm a little worried I might ruin one of Rocky's ZDP edges.

Have any of you guys ever dropped your Rocky's with the blade opened? I've dropped mine quite a few times, but it was either a light fall against wood/laminate floors or a closed-blade fall on concrete or other hard surfaces.

I like the idea of 3V anything :thumbup:

As for dropping my Rockys or knives in general - I've dropped a number of knives (including my Higo & Chi), but on soft or more forgiving surfaces than concrete (once or twice while open, more while closed...typically mishandling retrieval from my pocket). No damage to the blade...but, again, soft surfaces helped

Again, for me, this comes down to personal usage needs/habits. The ZDP-189 works great for me as I don't find myself using it in environments where I'm surrounded by concrete etc. - the environments in which i use my knives are less "hazardous" when it comes to potentially damaging an edge. Most usage occurs at home (where I run a small academic book sales business - hence the soft materials being cut as I receive and send out books). The ZDP-189 fits my needs very well, whether or not it will meet yours is, of course, another matter.

More importantly, however, who will be putting together the GoFundMe page for the destruction tests?

 

[brandoak]

.....I'll donate a good bottle of bourbon to help with the guilt

.........More importantly, however, who will be putting together the GoFundMe page for the destruction tests?

Ill do a splendid job on the video,...Ill play a rhythmic tribal drum beat in the background....after it survives a concrete drop and staple pry test, Ill go right to the 55 gal. drum piercing......

 

[The Aflac Duck]

Ill do a splendid job on the video,...Ill play a rhythmic tribal drum beat in the background....after it survives a concrete drop and staple pry test, Ill go right to the 55 gal. drum piercing......

Maybe send it to RX-79G's Destructive Testing Services

 

[victorf]

Here is an extensive long term test, not at Ryo, but Tei with clad ZDP for additional strength:

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct...ad-Tei&usg=AFQjCNHnwgmDCpdoUZ179Rl_VyFC7Vc9fw

Here is one on the "other" Rockstead steel:

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct...stead/&usg=AFQjCNGVcbgkWvbbyRa_3k71LS36cvTyFw

The two above and among many others had given me the insight and saved me from finding out for myself.

Rather then single ply, I have an affinity for clad ZDP and prefer Japan's long history with clad steel. Here are mine - brothers from the same mother:

Another clad ZDP is pending...in the form of a Shun. Maybe another two weeks, hopefully, will be in my hands.

To be honest, I use utility box cutter for utility cutting, Spyderco GB2 for general cutting, modified YO2 for everyday carry - I don't use my Rocksteads!

YMMV!