Rome

Joined
Jan 12, 2005
Messages
5,874
Will the show's armorer include a folding knife as an appropriate tool of the pre-Christian period? I've read that the folding knife was originally made in the first century, well after the HBO show's time period (52 BC).

How old is the oldest folder? Where would it have been made, Gaul? Perhaps some of you oldtimer BladeForum cognoscente sages hammered them out yourselves. :D

History of Folding Knives
http://web.indstate.edu/community/vchs/ht/ht052586.htm

History of Portable Eating Utensils
http://www.hospitalityguild.com/History/history_of_portable_Eating_Utensils.htm

Best,

oregon
 
The friction folder, think straight razor, has been in continual use since the Bronze Age. Here is an example of one that I have made by Michael Tinker Pearce. http://forums.swordforum.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=53300

I also have a replica of a 2nd Century CE Roman folder from a dig in Augst, Switzerland, made by Holder Ratsdorf of Germany. I have bben told that I cannot upload a picture since I have already uploaded this picture to a thread entitled, "Why the folding knife?" which the "Search" function cannot locate so that I may include a link.
 
Attachments uploaded over a year ago have been pruned. If you rename the file you can upload it again; the system won't recognize it.
 
".doc" is the extension for a Microsoft Word document. I tried clicking on that and it crashed Wordpad.... I guess the original filename was romanfolder.jpg and you renamed it romanfolder.doc, right? That is not going to work. Rename it romanfolder2.jpg and that will work.
 
Brilliant pictures Fuller. Thank you kindly for making history come alive for me. Since the Bronze Age hit at different times in different places when do you think the Romans first had folders? I wish I could see your 2nd century Roman folder pics.

Folders make sense for people with pockets. I understand that pockets weren't invented until the time of Christopher Columbus. I wonder how the Romans carried their "pocket knives?" Folders make sense to minimize the amount of expensive metal used in their manufacture if they don't use a tang. However, your reproduction has more metal than just a blade so it could have been a fixed blade if the maker had so desired it to be.

Perhaps the folder was developed for the same reasons I like them: convenient size when folded and useful size when unfolded, safe when carried, reduced weight over a fixed blade and scabbard and just plain clever.

All the best,

oregon
 
Romans, and others at the time, used pouches that they carried tied around their necks, waists, or ther portions of their anatomies. They also had a nicely done bronze purse that sloipped over the wrist and had a lid that openned inwards so that your wrist held it closed. When men wore their togas, the drape of the toga over the left arm also created a sort of pouch out of some of the folds that was called the "sinus" where they carried various light items.

For pics of Roman clasp knives, go to http://www.hr-replikate.de/englisch/index.html make certain that you are in the English version, then click on "Catalogue", then on "Roman", next on "Other Items". Holger shows three knives in this section, two of them clasp knives. Mine is about 2/3 of the way down the page, #296, the little knife with the rooster hilt, which is bronze and not brass. I am considering ordering the #296 knife from further up the page. And, in case you're curious, Priapus was a male fertility god, as illustrated by the figurine #273.

To answer your question about when the Romans first had folders, my guess is that they had them Ad Urbs Condita, from the founding of the city back in the 8th Century BCE. By the First Century BCE, it was illegal to go armed within the "Pomerium", the area circumscribed by the ancient walls of the city, so I should imagine that they must have had many of these little clasp knives available for folks to use as how else would people have cut their meat, sharpened quills, or any of the myriad of things that one uses a pocket knife to accomplish.

BTW, there were basically three types of dagger that appear in Roman commentaries, the pugio,the broad-bladed dagger of the legionary, the parazonium, a somewhat narrower, but still straight dagger carried by high ranking officers in the armies, men of the patrician (or senatorial) class at the time in which "Rome" is set, and the sica, a curved dagger carried by non-Romans. The use of a sica by a Roman citizen would have been unthinkable as they were relegated only to barbarians such as Thracians, Greeks, and Jews. There was a group of Jewish zealots in the First Century CE who carried sicae and used them to assassinate people in Judaea. The Latin name for them was "sicarii", or men who carried sicae. Their name in Aramaic, the local laguage used in Judaea was "iscariot", which puts an interesting twist on the story of Judas Iscariot, IMO.

The carrying of any of these daggers by anyone but a person duly authorized to do so was a crime and was punished, although by the First Century BCE the major players were very probably ignoring these laws and even carrying gladii, the Roman short swords, within the pomerium. A toga can hide a multitude of things if it is draped properly and if the items are distributed properly. Lacking a toga, one could always hide things under a cloak.

Given the patrician, senatorial status of the men who assassinated Caius Iulius Caesar, it is my own opinion that they were not using pugiones or, gods forbid, sicae, but they were using the parazonium. In a society as class conscious as the Romans were, men would not have used daggers associated with those of lesser status and all of the assassins were senators, who came only from the patrician class.
 
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