Rough M4 Millie......

Joined
Jan 14, 2009
Messages
3,176
STR what is your take about why most of the M4 millies are smooth

out the box and some are rough and somewhat rough? Some of us were lucky

and some were unlucky.

Anything to do with the same QC Standards not used for the entire run.


Edit: Im asking for STR's feed back........Not opinions from others. Thanks.
 
Last edited:
First I've heard of it. Could be simply the washers used. If say they were stamped out or cut out and had a slight bur on one or both washers on some and not others they could cause a gritty or rough feeling action just from that alone. Polishing the washers some may fix each one up if that is the case so it would be the first thing I'd look at.

STR
 
I don't expect perfect knives from the factory at this price.

Very simple fix and you can do it yourself. Disassemble the knife and polish the washers on a strop without sanding. There will be a very polished surface to it. Use a high grade lubricant, WD40 will work but it won't last.

This is my M4 Ti Military's Liner and washers. Note that only the top washer was polished to compare the finish.

dsc07185g.jpg


Also note for a $210 knife, it comes with a Ti Frame lock with a Steel insert and a CPM-M4 Blade. What's not to like?
dsc07189w.jpg
 
The good news is that with use the washers will eventually wear in on their own if one were just inclined to let em break in that way but you can speed this up by following the tips by xtestifyx. In answer to your question about it being a quality control issue. No I don't think its really so much a quality control thing as it is just a common occurrence that washers can sometimes have a nub or bur on them from the laser, waterjet cutter or stamp machine that is used to separate them from the sheets. It happens and sometimes you may have to take a washer out and buff it down some to jump start what will occur over time on its own. Many Emerson users do this routinely because of how they come out of the box. Its not a sign of any QC issues just a sign that the knives need some break in to smooth out with time and use.

In other situations on frame locks and heavier duty liner locks using thicker slab designs where the knives have heavy spring resistance to them you can have detent balls that really lean into the blade more than on others. Sometimes its necessary to dot some grease on the detent ball in the lock. Not much mind you, just a dot of something like gun grease or some synthetic lube that will outlast oils. Minimal is better since you don't want a big lint attractor that will collect more grit than you really want in the pivot or detent area. Most of the stainless detent balls I've seen and bought are 440C and hardened to around 58-60 Rockwell and match up pretty well to most blades to allow for a nice smooth action. However its probably pretty common to have some ball bearings that come out softer than this just like it is to have some blades that are supposed to be 60 Rockwell that may end up being 54 to 56 Rockwell for whatever reasons. We've all seen flattened down washers from wearing on blades and overtime and sometimes even pretty quickly depending on lock tension and blade hardness the balls can flatten out right quick and scrape along on a bigger foot print than when first installed.

As for blade hardness issues: This came up just recently with a well known brand where a user contacted me and mentioned how a 55 Rockwell file he had could scratch his supposedly 60 Rockwell blade. This should not be the case as that 55 Rockwell file should not be harder than the blade in the S30V steel its made from but I've seen that on more than few knives over time where this can and does happen now and then. He contacted the manufacturer and they asked to see it to replace the blade. Oh and by the way, this was not from any recommendations on my part. I heard about it all after the fact and was not involved in the goings on between manufacturer and end line user.

In this case say where a blade was softer and the ball harder the ball can wear a channel pretty deep into the blade over time and cause some rough if not terrible feeling action unless you grease the channel up with something that will last longer than oil. In these cases its usually something that develops over time and was not noticed at first though. One of the problems with putting hammer forged blades that are differentially hardened in a frame or liner lock is how the ball can wear deeper in the softer areas of the blade near the spine and wear normally along the other areas where it travels. Not that this has any bearing on your issue just one of the things I've learned fooling with various blades and using some in my folders that were done by ABS master smiths. It can be quite challenging to make one of those work and give you a decent action.

I've also noticed on some knives, like the Emerson CQC14 for example, that the location of the detent ball as for where it rides along the blade as it rotates can both affect how the blade feels as it rolls open and closed as well as give off an audible report as you open and close it. I've owned like six of the 14 models since it first came out and I've handled countless others mailed to me for frame lock conversions and low rider clip add ons and more. Some of the detents on a couple of these were pretty dang loud almost singing to me as I opened and closed the blades. Interestingly when I converted some of these to frame locks in .160 thick slab lock sides like those shown in my blog and on my forums the noise got even louder with stronger higher spring tension locks. If you note on the 14 model from Emerson the detent ball installed in the lock rolls along the rim of the tang of the blade literally right on the edge. I'm not sure if that contributes to the noise or not but some of the 14 models have been quite noisy openers with rough feeling actions and it all came down to the detent ball.

Yours sounds like its just the opposite for symptoms for detent balls so thats why my first suspect would be washers for new knives like yours. My guess is that if you were to polish or change out the washers with something else that the action would suddenly smooth out. Be advised that changes to the washers are problematic.

You'd be surprised how many people just assume that all washers are the same and buy some not knowing anything about how to properly size them to get the correct fit for a replacement. Not only should the outside diameter and inside diameters match up to the originals but the thickness has to be the same also and since many use two or more washers per side these days its often times hard to match up proprietary measurements to fit within tolerance. Sometimes if the washers are too thin the pivot won't tighten down, and if too thick you can cause weird action where its easy starting out the blade to open it but it gets progressively harder as it rolls around or you end up with a pivot screw that consistently loosens over time even if secured down with loctite. This is from the tension of wedging out the liners from improper fit of course.

Anyway, thats just some more thoughts on it since you brought it up.
 
Last edited:
Back
Top