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- Mar 7, 2006
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- 2,171
As I mentioned in another thread, I've become curious about some of the Rough Rider and other China made knives that are produced as China made knives and not American brands that sold out. I recently took the plunge and got the two knives pictured in the link below. (Hopefully it works.)
http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/amos....detail?.dir=/8c4ere2&.dnm=bf80re2.jpg&.src=ph
The muskrat is imitation abalone while the barlow is tortise.
Both knives have a fit and finish that, I hate to say it, runs neck and neck with my current productin Case yellow handles. On both the Case knives and the Rough Riders there are some very tiny lines of space between the liners and the backsprings here and there. I'm talking pretty minimal here, but there are no clearly superior fits between the two product lines, at least on my examples.
Truth be told, on my Cases the base of the blades where they rest against the backsrings are overly polished and rounded. The Rough Riders tend to be more squared off. Remember, I'm only comparing a couple of Rough Riders with a three or four Case Yellow Handles. Overall the bolsters then to be rounder and smoother in design avoiding sharp corners on the RRs. On both Riders the bolsters have a single line across.
Both Rough Riders have excellent scale to bolster and scale to lliner fit. The nail nicks are of the matchstrike variety and add a nice touch. Looking end on from either end of either knife, the fit and finish looks good. Both examples are quite attractive and would look good in a dressed up environment.
By way of comparison, I found that where none of my Case YH CV knives (current, 2003 - 2006 production) have any hesitation at the halfway point, both Rough Riders have half-stops, though not with any clear snap into place. They are more of a temporary drop in resistance, slow down to get on/off the bus kind of stop and cary between knives and even a little between blades. Still, they have it, and the Cases don't.
Both knives also have some heft to them. Just by feel, the barlow feels a tiny bit heavier than a delrin stocked Boker barlow I have. Not significantly so, just a tiny, barely perceptable so. The muskrat spreads the weight out and doesn't feel offensively heavy in the hand. Neither does the barlow for that matter. The muskrat is comfortable in the hand in fact. It is in the pocket that I notice them. For a fair comparison, I'm used to carrying the Case YH Sodbuster Jr that I've yammered so much about the carrying qualities of and its new companion, perhaps competitor, a 31048 CV Barehead trapper, also in yellow handle. The later is a trim little, long and lean sweetheart that rides very well in the back pocket. Currently I'm carrying both, the sodbuster in the front pocket and the slim trapper in the back for a day to day comparison.
To digress from the subject a moment, I'm finding that having both works well as I've found situations where one blade or the other works better for each situation. I know, I could just carry a multi-bladed knife and be done with it. I have one, mentioned later on the way to try out for that role. I just like the carrying and handling qualities of these two single blades.
Getting back on subject, I think the muskrat would carry just as easy, if not easier than a Case YH stockman, either medium or large. The muskrat certainly has a smoother profile with it's rounded bolsters.
With the good stuff out of the way, there are a few less than positive qualities with the Rough Riders. On the muskrat, with its long, equal blades, one backsrpring is nice and strong while the other is soft. When closing the blade one gives a soft schnick while the other goes SNAP! Since both blades are the same, until a means of identifying the weak side on sight is determined, you will have to wait until you start to open the blade to determine which side it is, the soft or the strong. I could see using the softer side for things like letter opening, cutting wrapping string and paper, while reserving the strong side for meatier tasks. On another specimen you might find both springs strong, or both springs weak. That's one of the down sides.
The Barlow's big weakness is that the small spear blade sits just deep enough into the frame that the nail nick sits about 90% or more below the frame. With practice you can shove your thumbnail in and down to engage the nick, but it does take some work and practice. I find the clip profile on the main blade a bit blunt looking. Not a funtional issue to be sure, but it is just a wee bit off putting.
Speaking of blades, both are 440 stainless. I've been told 440A, but can't be sure as the blades just read "440 Razor Sharp Steel." Okay, it isn't carbon steel and it isn't even 440C, but it is certainly a usable steel for a pocket knife and not bad if you are carrying it and using it in a humid, sweaty environment. It just isn't carbon steel or D2. All four blades came usably sharp. However, on the barlow I would probably introduce it to the sharpening stone before really carrying it. On the muskrat one blade was shaving sharp, though not frighteningly so, and the other didn't shave, but was none the less pretty sharp. The old slicing the paper edge routine was easy with either of the muskrat's blades and neither blade encountered any catching along the length of the draw. The sharper of the two, which coincidently was the one with the strog backspring, would cut thin, curling, strips of paper with ease.
For these two samples that is pretty much the best and the worst of it. In any knife over $20 I would be disappointed and feel ripped off, but for half that, or even a few dollars over half that, they are a good value for the dollars spent.
As someone else mentioned, and my apologies for forgetting who it was, when they examined a table of them there was some variance between knives, even of the same pattern. I would say that sums it up. They aren't bad knives at all, just some are better than others. I haven't seen others to compare with, but I am going to speculate the fit and finish when looked over is probably going to be pretty good. I think where the inconsistencies <sp> will be found is in the blade sharpness and the backsprings. If they could get these things worked out to the point of producing all their knives at the level of their best while keeping the prices so low, then these have a good chance of becoming a darned good, inexpensive knife line.
I paid just under $10 each for these including shipping off of ebay. This particular seller won't combine shipping, but did ship quickly. Both knives are lovely to look at. The barlow with its horsehoe logo and the RR inside and the rounded lines reminds me of some of those pics I've seen of the Russels, in that they have that look of an older barlow. It looks like classic American. Both knives look anything but cheap.
I would certainly, and probably will buy more as long as I can get them for under $15 each shipped. I'm thinking that if you could get with an online dealer that would be willing to hand pick them for you, and I'd pay up to a dollar extra for that, with the emphasis on what you are looking for, say best scales, best snap of the blades, or best overall, you could build a lovely, yet inexpensive knife collection with a variety of patterns and stock materials.
Am I going to quit buying or carrying Case, or Boker, or any other quality American or European slipjoint in favor of these? Not at all. Despite their not having any walk and talk, and that they are over polished in a places, I like the two Case yellow handles I'm currenlty carrying a lot. I hope to gradually add more German and better American blades such as Queen to the slowly growing collection.
There is still something intangible in the holding and using of classic knives by classic companies. When you wrap your hand around a Case, a Boker, Kissing Crane, an earlier, genuwyne U.S.of A. Old Timer, or any other classic, you are wrapping your hand around a tradition and a history, and rubbing shoulders with a brotherhood that understood that a solid working knife is a part of their life experience, hence an inseperable part of them. Even if these Rough Riders had all the bugs worked out, no matter how good they look, or how hard they work, they just can't pass on that intangible heritage. In a way it's a shame as they have the potential to be a nice knife, even at comparable prices to the American/Geman knives. But for us dinosaurs, being made in China, being only recently born, they just can't quite touch that spot in our hearts. Thank goodness there are still companies out there that can do that.
Just for perspective, during this ebay cruise out of six knives purchased, two were Case Yellow Handles, two were Rough Riders, and two, yet to be delivered, were stag scaled Bokers, one of which is going to get tested out as a carry knife. Since that one is a multi-blade, a congress, my two current carries might need to worry some. Then again, I have four pockets, why not carry four knives in different patterns.
I would, however, take one of these over a new Schrade even if the Schrade was perfecet in every way. The Rough Riders, and consequently the Steel Warriors and the Boker Magnum Bonsai series are what they are and what they started out as, Chinese made pocket knives made in mostly American traditional patterns. They don't represent the selling out and the trading on the name of an American icon. Schrade quit being Schrade when it closed the doors and sold the name to Talyor who hauled keister to China for production. Remington knives took a dive when they left a long standing relationship with Camillus and started having their knives made in China. Sure, all the knives are made in China, but one set is just up front and honest, not trying to trade on a history and tradition, while the others, well, I don't care much for it. It may be just business, but it isn't clean business. Companies like Boker have always had an operation or two in different countries. They do however, treat them as seperate lines and each is marketed as their own line. So you have Tree Brand, Arbolitos, and Bonsai. I can get behind that. It's honest. Trying to sell on the great historic American traditions of the Uncle Henry while passing me a China made knife with the Uncle Henry name on it isn't.
Sorry, got a little political there. Anyway, bottom line is, they ain't bad knives and the are pretty darn nice to look at and hold and I wouldn't be ashamed to be seen with one in hand. If you were to open the weak side of the muskrat instead of the strong side, that might be a little embarassing, but just looking at laying in my hand, I wouldn't sweat. And if I did, the blades are stainless. If you like exotic stocks, but not the exotice prices as I do, these might provide a way to build a looker collection at a minor price. And, you can even use them if you need or want to, they should work well enough for general cutting, though only time will tell how good they hold up to regular use. I lean more to the collection of lookers on these. I have other knives for carrying.
That's pretty much it. Good thing since this is a little long. I know, I should have put this over in the Reviews forum, but that would be like leaving a bunch of fellow bullshooters on the bench outside the general store munching moon pies while I went off to the new Starbucks in town to tell my tales. I like it better sharing it with you guys.
http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/amos....detail?.dir=/8c4ere2&.dnm=bf80re2.jpg&.src=ph
The muskrat is imitation abalone while the barlow is tortise.
Both knives have a fit and finish that, I hate to say it, runs neck and neck with my current productin Case yellow handles. On both the Case knives and the Rough Riders there are some very tiny lines of space between the liners and the backsprings here and there. I'm talking pretty minimal here, but there are no clearly superior fits between the two product lines, at least on my examples.
Truth be told, on my Cases the base of the blades where they rest against the backsrings are overly polished and rounded. The Rough Riders tend to be more squared off. Remember, I'm only comparing a couple of Rough Riders with a three or four Case Yellow Handles. Overall the bolsters then to be rounder and smoother in design avoiding sharp corners on the RRs. On both Riders the bolsters have a single line across.
Both Rough Riders have excellent scale to bolster and scale to lliner fit. The nail nicks are of the matchstrike variety and add a nice touch. Looking end on from either end of either knife, the fit and finish looks good. Both examples are quite attractive and would look good in a dressed up environment.
By way of comparison, I found that where none of my Case YH CV knives (current, 2003 - 2006 production) have any hesitation at the halfway point, both Rough Riders have half-stops, though not with any clear snap into place. They are more of a temporary drop in resistance, slow down to get on/off the bus kind of stop and cary between knives and even a little between blades. Still, they have it, and the Cases don't.
Both knives also have some heft to them. Just by feel, the barlow feels a tiny bit heavier than a delrin stocked Boker barlow I have. Not significantly so, just a tiny, barely perceptable so. The muskrat spreads the weight out and doesn't feel offensively heavy in the hand. Neither does the barlow for that matter. The muskrat is comfortable in the hand in fact. It is in the pocket that I notice them. For a fair comparison, I'm used to carrying the Case YH Sodbuster Jr that I've yammered so much about the carrying qualities of and its new companion, perhaps competitor, a 31048 CV Barehead trapper, also in yellow handle. The later is a trim little, long and lean sweetheart that rides very well in the back pocket. Currently I'm carrying both, the sodbuster in the front pocket and the slim trapper in the back for a day to day comparison.
To digress from the subject a moment, I'm finding that having both works well as I've found situations where one blade or the other works better for each situation. I know, I could just carry a multi-bladed knife and be done with it. I have one, mentioned later on the way to try out for that role. I just like the carrying and handling qualities of these two single blades.
Getting back on subject, I think the muskrat would carry just as easy, if not easier than a Case YH stockman, either medium or large. The muskrat certainly has a smoother profile with it's rounded bolsters.
With the good stuff out of the way, there are a few less than positive qualities with the Rough Riders. On the muskrat, with its long, equal blades, one backsrpring is nice and strong while the other is soft. When closing the blade one gives a soft schnick while the other goes SNAP! Since both blades are the same, until a means of identifying the weak side on sight is determined, you will have to wait until you start to open the blade to determine which side it is, the soft or the strong. I could see using the softer side for things like letter opening, cutting wrapping string and paper, while reserving the strong side for meatier tasks. On another specimen you might find both springs strong, or both springs weak. That's one of the down sides.
The Barlow's big weakness is that the small spear blade sits just deep enough into the frame that the nail nick sits about 90% or more below the frame. With practice you can shove your thumbnail in and down to engage the nick, but it does take some work and practice. I find the clip profile on the main blade a bit blunt looking. Not a funtional issue to be sure, but it is just a wee bit off putting.
Speaking of blades, both are 440 stainless. I've been told 440A, but can't be sure as the blades just read "440 Razor Sharp Steel." Okay, it isn't carbon steel and it isn't even 440C, but it is certainly a usable steel for a pocket knife and not bad if you are carrying it and using it in a humid, sweaty environment. It just isn't carbon steel or D2. All four blades came usably sharp. However, on the barlow I would probably introduce it to the sharpening stone before really carrying it. On the muskrat one blade was shaving sharp, though not frighteningly so, and the other didn't shave, but was none the less pretty sharp. The old slicing the paper edge routine was easy with either of the muskrat's blades and neither blade encountered any catching along the length of the draw. The sharper of the two, which coincidently was the one with the strog backspring, would cut thin, curling, strips of paper with ease.
For these two samples that is pretty much the best and the worst of it. In any knife over $20 I would be disappointed and feel ripped off, but for half that, or even a few dollars over half that, they are a good value for the dollars spent.
As someone else mentioned, and my apologies for forgetting who it was, when they examined a table of them there was some variance between knives, even of the same pattern. I would say that sums it up. They aren't bad knives at all, just some are better than others. I haven't seen others to compare with, but I am going to speculate the fit and finish when looked over is probably going to be pretty good. I think where the inconsistencies <sp> will be found is in the blade sharpness and the backsprings. If they could get these things worked out to the point of producing all their knives at the level of their best while keeping the prices so low, then these have a good chance of becoming a darned good, inexpensive knife line.
I paid just under $10 each for these including shipping off of ebay. This particular seller won't combine shipping, but did ship quickly. Both knives are lovely to look at. The barlow with its horsehoe logo and the RR inside and the rounded lines reminds me of some of those pics I've seen of the Russels, in that they have that look of an older barlow. It looks like classic American. Both knives look anything but cheap.
I would certainly, and probably will buy more as long as I can get them for under $15 each shipped. I'm thinking that if you could get with an online dealer that would be willing to hand pick them for you, and I'd pay up to a dollar extra for that, with the emphasis on what you are looking for, say best scales, best snap of the blades, or best overall, you could build a lovely, yet inexpensive knife collection with a variety of patterns and stock materials.
Am I going to quit buying or carrying Case, or Boker, or any other quality American or European slipjoint in favor of these? Not at all. Despite their not having any walk and talk, and that they are over polished in a places, I like the two Case yellow handles I'm currenlty carrying a lot. I hope to gradually add more German and better American blades such as Queen to the slowly growing collection.
There is still something intangible in the holding and using of classic knives by classic companies. When you wrap your hand around a Case, a Boker, Kissing Crane, an earlier, genuwyne U.S.of A. Old Timer, or any other classic, you are wrapping your hand around a tradition and a history, and rubbing shoulders with a brotherhood that understood that a solid working knife is a part of their life experience, hence an inseperable part of them. Even if these Rough Riders had all the bugs worked out, no matter how good they look, or how hard they work, they just can't pass on that intangible heritage. In a way it's a shame as they have the potential to be a nice knife, even at comparable prices to the American/Geman knives. But for us dinosaurs, being made in China, being only recently born, they just can't quite touch that spot in our hearts. Thank goodness there are still companies out there that can do that.
Just for perspective, during this ebay cruise out of six knives purchased, two were Case Yellow Handles, two were Rough Riders, and two, yet to be delivered, were stag scaled Bokers, one of which is going to get tested out as a carry knife. Since that one is a multi-blade, a congress, my two current carries might need to worry some. Then again, I have four pockets, why not carry four knives in different patterns.
I would, however, take one of these over a new Schrade even if the Schrade was perfecet in every way. The Rough Riders, and consequently the Steel Warriors and the Boker Magnum Bonsai series are what they are and what they started out as, Chinese made pocket knives made in mostly American traditional patterns. They don't represent the selling out and the trading on the name of an American icon. Schrade quit being Schrade when it closed the doors and sold the name to Talyor who hauled keister to China for production. Remington knives took a dive when they left a long standing relationship with Camillus and started having their knives made in China. Sure, all the knives are made in China, but one set is just up front and honest, not trying to trade on a history and tradition, while the others, well, I don't care much for it. It may be just business, but it isn't clean business. Companies like Boker have always had an operation or two in different countries. They do however, treat them as seperate lines and each is marketed as their own line. So you have Tree Brand, Arbolitos, and Bonsai. I can get behind that. It's honest. Trying to sell on the great historic American traditions of the Uncle Henry while passing me a China made knife with the Uncle Henry name on it isn't.
Sorry, got a little political there. Anyway, bottom line is, they ain't bad knives and the are pretty darn nice to look at and hold and I wouldn't be ashamed to be seen with one in hand. If you were to open the weak side of the muskrat instead of the strong side, that might be a little embarassing, but just looking at laying in my hand, I wouldn't sweat. And if I did, the blades are stainless. If you like exotic stocks, but not the exotice prices as I do, these might provide a way to build a looker collection at a minor price. And, you can even use them if you need or want to, they should work well enough for general cutting, though only time will tell how good they hold up to regular use. I lean more to the collection of lookers on these. I have other knives for carrying.
That's pretty much it. Good thing since this is a little long. I know, I should have put this over in the Reviews forum, but that would be like leaving a bunch of fellow bullshooters on the bench outside the general store munching moon pies while I went off to the new Starbucks in town to tell my tales. I like it better sharing it with you guys.
