RTAK or Ranger Knives RD9?

Eric H

Eric H

Joined
Jul 15, 1999
Messages
541
I'm trying to decide between the two of these knives. They are very similar, and I've read many of the dislikes about the RTAK on this forum (mainly about the handle size/shape), but I haven't seen any reviews of the RD knives (or at least of the RD9).

The knife I choose will basically be used for what a knife of this type is designed for--hiking/camping, cross between a cap knife and a machete.

Can anyone shed some light on the differences between these two models?

Thanks!

E
 
While these may look similar they are very different, the RTAK is basically a small machete, basically it has the same general scope of work as a 12" Ontario machete with a finer point for knife work. As with Ontario products in general the QC is low and multiple reports of gross damage have been reported on the forums.

The RD series in contrast are *much* thicker in cross section and made to handle much heavier impacts and loads and cross over into more tactial work. Justin has been selling flat ground ones and has been offering thinner edge profiles so a lot depends on what you get hollow/flat and the type of edge.

-Cliff
 
RTAK would be my choice.I have carried one and beat the hell out of it for bout 2 years now with zero prob's.6 of my friends own RTAK's as well and have had zero failures.The RTAK is designed for jungle work but I have cut every thing with including fruits and veggies,just a great do er all type knife.
 
WHile I usually agree with just about everything Cliff says, this time I have to respectfully disagree. I've had my RTAK for about three years now I guess and have had zero problems in that time, and it's been used hard.

It's a perfectly balanced knife and it'll handle whatever you can throw at it, or at least it has in my experience. Anything the RTAK can't handle will need a hatchet or axe.

The RTAK's handle takes some getting used to, but if you have medium to large hands, it should be no problem at all; in fact, I find it to be a very comfortable grip for the work that it performs... and micarta is wonderful stuff.

Just my 27,016 Turkish Lira.
 
I have a Rat-7 from Ontario and it's stood up to some heavy stuff (mainly thrown at it because I wanted to see if it would, having heard some bad things about some of them). The tip, in particular, stood up flawlessly to some very unnecessary abuse.
I found the handle, admittedly, a little blocky.
I took some rough sandpaper to it, gripping it every few minutes to keep track of my progess and intent, and shaped it nicely. Some finer sandpaper afterwards and it looked better to me than it did NIB and now feels comfortable in my hand. Given, you might not feel like you should have to reshape the grip but I enjoyed the process (quite simple) and was very happy with the result.
 
Psychopomp said:
...disagree.
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Not really a disagreement. While Ontario's QC is the worse I have seen in both regards to number of defects and magnitude, they do of course make solid blades on occasion. I got a Marine Raider bowie which was solid both in steel performance and grind, however I saw major problems with a Survival Bowie, Bolo, two machetes, an RTAK and a khukuri. Had those blades been free of the grind and steel defects they would have made solid users, they have lots of quality designs, the implementation is just no consistent. On an ironic note, as soon as I noted this in a review, the only decent blade I saw was the Raider Bowie, someone commented that the tip on thiers was brittle and cracked readily - good thing I didn't get that one as well.

-Cliff
 
Eric -

I know nothing about RTAKs other than what I've seen on the 'net so I can't comment or directly compare. However, I would like to point you in the direction of the Ranger forum on another forum site.

I own an RD9 and will say that it is massively well built. I doubt I possess the strength or size to hurt this blade thru even Cliff's standard of what a knife could be reasonably used for... (no offense Cliff) and I'm 6'3" and 220.

The Ranger forum made me very comfortable to purchase Ranger products thru the reviews of others in regard to the incredible level of gracious customer service of Justin and his proxy... err... significant other, Jen.

All in all, a great, small company that makes a hard-use product at an easy to swallow price. If you have a problem or need help, I'm quite sure Justin will go out of his way to help; he takes great personal pride in his work.
 
Paddling_man said:
...in regard to the incredible level of gracious customer service ...
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To me customer service means a lot more than just responce to orders, it includes warrenty issues as well as just ability/desire to convey information to the public. Justin is a standout in that regard with his open manner to discuss use and ability of his knives in a non-hype manner, and the willingness to have reviews on his site which are not simple fluff promotional pieces of his knives but actually discuss their strengths and weaknesses and not just evaluate them for a scope of work where they excell.

-Cliff
 
I can't comment on the Ranger knife but I just traded into an RTAK. I have not used this knife.
Randall describes this as a cross between a machete and a camp knife.
I really like the blade on this knife.
I would describe it as a knife. 3/16" flat ground 1095 - reasonably thin edge, nice profile except for the slightly strange swedge on the tip.
However, the handle is not so knife like. It is has a very wide handle. Uniquely wide. The top edge of the scales is a little sharp.
It looks like it might work well if you have large hands.
I would like to see a deeper and sharper groove to form a credible integral lower guard and a little less width overall.
This knife has seen some amount of testing and use both here and in parts south of the border. The majority of the reviews are favorable.
 
I am still new to this.
Trying to decide between KBar, Becker, and a couple of others.
I'd like to know more about the Ranger. Is this the brand name?
 
The Ranger line of knives can be found at www.rangerknives.com

Justin was very open in discussing his knives with me, especially in regards to materials. He was willing to do true custom work as well. Excellent maker as far as I am concerned.

Unless you are cutting hard metals or such, I would ask for a thinner edge to be ground.

As Cliff points out, the RD9 and the RTAK are very different knives, if you are looking for a small machete and will confine yourself to light work and soft vegetation, the RTAK may be fine. However, for just about all other work, the RD9 is directly better in my opinion, and having used both.

The Ontario version of the RTAK is pretty sad compared to the Original version, especially concerning heat treat.

If you are looking for that style knife, look on the used market for a Livesay RCM, it is a similiar blade to the RTAK with a better handle design and more useful blade shape.
 
Thanks everyone for all the input--it has certainly helped.

Cliff--I read and re-read your review of the RTAK while narrowing down my search to these two knives. Now, I think I'm leaning toward the RD9, simply because once I get a knife, I want to know that I can get in touch w/ an actual person who can help if I have any problems. (I have looked through the Ranger Knives forum on the other site.)

One last request for advice--Cliff, exactly what should I ask for (relating to grind/edge) when I order? I want something sharp, but tough that will hold up to machete type work and light chopping. I'm clueless as to the differences between "flat" or "hollow" or "convex" or any of the other types of grinds.

Thanks again.

Eric
 
I am not Cliff obviously, but I would ask for a full flat grind ground to about .035 behind the edge. If you will be sticking to light vegetation you can go down to .025" behind the edge, but you will be cutting the scope of work the knife is capable of. Look for an edge grind of around 20 degrees per side (or 15 degrees with a 20 degree micro bevel for somewhat lighter work).

That is what I would want at least.

If you are going to ask the maker to do extra work, or take extra pains to amke sure specs are to you wishes, high precision, etc, it is usually polite to offer extra compensation for the extra work.

As for steel, his standard 5160 is just fine, just about perfect for that sort of knife.
 
Check out the Ranger Knives forum on knifeforums.: there are some great reviews of the RD9.

The RD9 is a better design, made out of better steel, and has a comfortable and secure handle.

Either the flat or hollow ground version will work well.

The sheaths that Justin provides are very robust and functional.
 
Cliff Stamp said:
Not really a disagreement. While Ontario's QC is the worse I have seen in both regards to number of defects and magnitude, they do of course make solid blades on occasion. I got a Marine Raider bowie which was solid both in steel performance and grind, however I saw major problems with a Survival Bowie, Bolo, two machetes, an RTAK and a khukuri. Had those blades been free of the grind and steel defects they would have made solid users, they have lots of quality designs, the implementation is just no consistent. On an ironic note, as soon as I noted this in a review, the only decent blade I saw was the Raider Bowie, someone commented that the tip on thiers was brittle and cracked readily - good thing I didn't get that one as well.

-Cliff
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Now I'll agree with that :p. You are very correct (as usual), Ontario's quality control is hit and miss from time to time. My RTAK is wonderful, but I've owned a few other Ontario knives that either didn't suit me in the fit/finish department, or just didn't feel solid.
 
i dont mean to complicate things and be the newbie dick who always says Swamp Rat, but id like your guys opinion on how the RD7 and 9 hold up against the CT and BR. I have been interested in a SR for a while but they are expensive and take ages to arrive. I have heard ranger knives recomended a lot, just wanted to know how they match up, thanks all :D
 
knifetester said:
...I would ask for a full flat grind ground to about .035 behind the edge. If you will be sticking to light vegetation you can go down to .025" behind the edge, but you will be cutting the scope of work the knife is capable of. Look for an edge grind of around 20 degrees per side (or 15 degrees with a 20 degree micro bevel for somewhat lighter work).
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That is very solid advice as usual. At about 0.035" with a solid steel, I have been unable to induce rippling even on bad knots, at about 0.025" you can handle all manner of wood work out side of heavy batoning inducing lateral strain from ring knots. As you dip under 0.025" then even chopping can cause the edge to ripple if you hit poorly.

I have dipped down to 0.010" on occasion just to see how my skills run, and I can't get that thickness to hold except on the softest woods when I am really careful. If I mess up just a litle bit, or the wood changes consistency suddently the edge just blows. You don't have much margin for error there, they cut well though.

So 0.035" is a solid starting point, if you are really skilled or your physical abilities lower than average, or you just won't use it aggressively, you can go much thinner and you can experiment with this after awhile by simply thinning the edge with a back bevel. On the other hand though, if you go too thin and the edge ripples you can't fix it as readily.

As for edge, 15 degrees holds up to any wood work with a 20 degree micro bevel just from honing on a Sharpmaker as needed. The user just runs the micro bevel, the maker just creates the primary. Of course it doesn't need to be exactly 15 on the button, just get it a few degrees under 20 so you can hit it on a Sharpmaker or jig easily.

If you hand hone this doesn't matter as much and instead you may want to look at a convex edge which sweeps out from 10 -> 20 degrees from the shoulder to the edge of the bevel. This is easy to create with a belt sander on Justin end and easy to maintain on your end with several methods.

As for Swamp Rat, I don't think it is a newbie question to ask for a comparison, the RD series are in fact ground from Busse blanks so there is obviously a great deal of similarity between a DR7 and Camp Tramp, aside from the handles which are fairly different. A lot will come from the type of RD (hollow / flat) and the respective edge geometries.

-Cliff
 
So 0.035" is a solid starting point, if you are really skilled or your physical abilities lower than average, or you just won't use it aggressively, you can go much thinner
Click to expand...

My perspective differs a little on people with less than optimal physical ability. I tend to recommend that they go with slightly thicker grinds, but only for one reason: Fatigue. I know from personal experience that when people get tired, they get sloppy, which leads to inaccurate blows which place lateral stress across the thin edge.

However, people with limited physical ability (strength for example) will see significant gains by going to the most efficient profile possible as they can not just power through the cuts like a stronger person can.

I have dipped down to 0.010" on occasion just to see how my skills run
Click to expand...

That is really thin, it is about what I like my light use knives at. It would take a really high quality steel and heat treat, and a great deal of user skill, and a good deal of luck avoiding knots and inclusions to be able to run chopping tools that thin!!
 
knifetester said:
My perspective differs a little on people with less than optimal physical ability. I tend to recommend that they go with slightly thicker grinds, but only for one reason: Fatigue. I know from personal experience that when people get tired, they get sloppy, which leads to inaccurate blows which place lateral stress across the thin edge.
Click to expand...
Yeah, around here I tend to run mainly into aggressive types which have a lot more raw strength than skill and problem solving tends to be "get a bigger hammer" approach.

Fatigue can be a problem though, running the edges a little thick though to solve that might be counter productive as it would induce fatigue earlier through lower cutting ability.

Most people I have seen like that won't tend to work when so tired anyway. But if they do then yeah you need the edges overbuilt beyond optimal as it is now a case of vastly reduced method/skill.

This also comes into play for emergency/stressed situations where even a skilled user may find his abilties degraded.

-Cliff
 
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