Rule of thumb - which lock is stronger and more reliable?

T

termiteslayer

Joined
Dec 18, 2009
Messages
783
I know there are all kinds of variables, but which is in theory 'the best' (reliability, I guess is what I mean by best, I guess), if there is such a thing.
I found a fair amount of stuff that's critical of liner and frame locks because of potential slippage under the right circumstances.
Mostly this popped up in my mind when I just disassembled, cleaned and reassembled my Spydie Military.
I was meticulous in placing everything back as it was and there was a bit of a fiasco getting it so the liner lock would actually engage to lock the blade.
Seems it was a screw tightening sequence (pivot screw first, and then back), but now I'm a little weirded out by the liner lock thing after seeing that there really isn't that much contact happening between the blade and the lock (just the point of the liner lock is touching, though it is fully engaged).
RIL vs liner lock vs lock back... just wondering out loud and hoping for a little enlightenment.
Thanks.
 
I think a good framelock like an XM18 is about as tough as it gets. If you are just talking production a ZT or Benchmade framelock is pretty tough. I also think the ZT500 lock and the Benchmade Axis lock are pretty good too. It is hard to beat an XM18. Thanks. Kevin
 
Spyderco Ball Bearing Lock (Poliwog/Yojimbo) or maybe the Caged Ball Bearing (Manix 2) and of course the Triad lock
 
From my experience (and from things I have read) the lockback knife is the strongest folder with a lock.

I think knives with a secondary locking mechanism (like the LAWKS) would then fall next in line.

The Ball Bearing lock would not be in my top five for strength, that is not from any reasearch but only from the limited exposure I have had of them on Spydercos. I had a first run Dodo that did not perform well though I love Spydies and the knife itself.

I have heard very good things re the TriAd lock but have no experience with it.
 
to me the most reliable is lock is the one that is most simple, less things to go wrong etc. they are also the easiest to disassemble.
 
I don't know about stronger, but I like a framelock because I can SEE how reliable it is, as opposed to a knife where the locking mechanism is hidden inside the handle.
 
frame locks are prone to releaseing when you twist the handle and inadvertanly release the lock

Tri ad or axis lock in my mind
 
lock strength doesn't matter a whole lot IMO. Frame locks are cool, they are strong and pleasing to the eye... but theres really nothing i'd do with a frame lock that I wouldn't do with a slip join anyway.

for any real abuse you need a fixed blade
 
I am very surprised that no one has mentioned the compression lock. Although I don't remember for sure and I am certainly no authority on this topic, I recall it receiving a reward for being one of those super dependable locks. In addition, if you get a compression lock that uses the whole handle slab for the pieces that sticks behind the blade ( spyderco atr for example) instead of one that just uses a thin liner (spyderco para military for example), you've got yourself one hell of a strong lock that's better than a framelock IMO. In addition if it's a titanium handle (like the spyderco atr in ti version), you can be pretty sure the blade won't inadvertently close on you.
 
Reliability was a part of the question, too.
You're right though, if I was only concerned with strength I'd get a fixed.
I like folders and fixed, but it's bad enough to walk around where I live with a folder (the local police seem to frown on people who want to protect themselves) and fixed blades would certainly get a bit more stink eye from the police.
I've asked many of the local cops about the local carry laws. They definitely don't like fixed blades, even if they are legal, and really seem to just not be too thrilled that Joe Public even having a pocket knife.
California PC crap... man, do I ever miss Colorado.
Anyway, reliability is more of a concern, I guess.
 
Here's a discussion of liner locks and other types of locks from a few months ago that might be helpful:

Link
 
For the most reliable and strong lock I would say that probably goes to the compression lock. No springs to break and nothing that can really slip like some frame/liner locks are prone to. I have had a frame and liner lock that wanted to 'walk' towards the unlocked position when pressure was applied. I also had a frame lock completely wear out so that the lock was touching the opposite scale and there was blade play (and there is nothing that can be done to fix it, just hope the manufacturer has parts to replace the worn out lock). I had a liner lock actually close on me while using it. And none of these were cheap garbage but respectable brands that everyone praises on a daily basis. I no longer feel like taking the chance so I try to not buy them anymore as I personally feel there are much better types out there these days.

The lock back is pretty good too but it can also wear out so that the lockbar doesn't engage the notch in the blade tang and can develop vertical bladeplay. This should take quite a long time to happen though, unless you are really beating on the knife enough to peen the metal at contact points and it is possible to accidentally depress the lock and release the blade. The Triad lock adds a stop pin so that a lot of the forces are transferred to the stop pin instead of the lock parts and has proven to be a strong design. I think wear like with a plain back lock is also possible and vertical play could become an issue although I'm not sure there has been enough time to tell about long term durability since it is fairly new.

I think the AXIS lock is one of the strongest locks and it is my personal favorite. Yes there are omega springs that can break but there have been relatively few instances compared to how many AXIS lock knives there are out there. I think statistically the failure rate is pretty close to zero. It has also been shown that some of the knives if taken apart and not put back together correctly, the springs can be pinched causing a significant increase in stress at one point. But if a spring did break you can wedge a stick behind the lock bar to keep it from unlocking until you send it back to Benchmade and it will work with just one spring just fine for a long time. Plus if you don't want to send it back like me, 5 minutes and a piece of wire and some needle nose pliers and you have a new spring. Mine has been going strong for going on 2 years.

The Ball bearing lock is very similar to the AXIS lock (VERY similar for all those that like to say Benchmade stole Spyderco's hole in the blade even though they have worked out an agreement). It does away with the omega springs and uses a coil spring and uses a ball that runs on a track instead of a rod that rides on the liners. It should also be very strong and maybe a little more reliable with the different type of spring. I personally think the AXIS lock is stronger since it would require the liners to be sheared while the BB lock only has 4 little screws that forces are transferred through and most will be applied to only 2 of the 4. Plus the AXIS lock just feels a lot better in use.

This topic always ends up pretty heated as the fans start to cheer for their favorite company but lots of discussion on it can be found with a search if you want to read up on past debates. But if you are using a folder as a cutter and not beating on it then just about any lock will work fine (even frame and liners as long as you get a good example of it :foot:)
 
I have heard of virtually every lock type failing except two.
The Spyderco Compression Lock, and the Cold Steel Triad lock.

The Triad is relatively new and so we've had a lot less exposure to it, I doubt its record will be tarnished very easily though. The design on that lock is the most solid of any I've ever seen.

After at least six years on the market, the Compression lock is probably the most consistently reliable lock type out there. Failures are almost unheard of, and the design itself is simple and easy to clean (especially the integral version on the ATR).

Remember that knives are very rarely taken to their breaking point, but shock impacts can make things slip much more easily than a constant heavy load does. Overall strength is much less important than the design of the lock and how it handles stress.
Really you can't go wrong with a well made Reeve Integral Lock (framelock), Axis Lock, or Back lock.
Some of the Ball Bearing locks gave trouble, the caged version seems to be fine though (it has more to do with fine tuning than any real change in design).
Liner locks can be strong and reliable, but they are by far the most finicky of the bunch.
IMO LAWKS is pretty useless, a knife can still close with the mechanism engaged. It happens.


The only way I know of to absolutely be sure that your lock will not fail is to carry a Fixed blade or a slip-joint.:p
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top