Russian Knives?

[MontanaVet]

While surfing the net I found this. They claim to be as good as BG-42 steel. The best part is they are not overpriced like the other Russian knives I looked at. Please tell me what you think about adding something different in the collection? MV out!

Russian Knives

FAQ

2. What type of steel is used for your knives?

Knives' blades are made of the famous Zlatoust forged and hardened stainless steel 110x18M and 40x10C-2M . You can check chemical components chart here. Hardness is <59 Rc.110x18 was the best stainless steel in Soviet Union and always been used for military needs. Closest standart would be BG-42.


3. What is a difference between 110x18 and BG-42?
The correct name for that steel is Lescalloy ® BG42 ® VIM-VAR - a martensitic stainless high speed steel that combines the temper resistance and hot hardness characteristics of M-50 high speed steel with the corrosion resistance of AISI Type 440C stainless steel. (See Alloy Digest SS-280 of October, 1972.) * LESCALLOY and BG42 are registered trademarks of Latrobe Steel Company.

A special manufacturing process combined with a very specific alloy results in a clean steel with good resistance to wear and corrosion. This type of steel is used for domestic, international and military aerospace applications. When compared with other types of steel, BG42 demonstrates superiority in areas of hardness, hot hardness, retention of hardness, corrosion resistance, oxidation resistance and wear resistance.

110x18 is a analoge of BG-42 which was created in Soviet Union in 1966!!! See the design page for details.

But why blades made of Zlatoust steel (110x18) are better? What makes it better? Answer is - HEAT TREATING. It is the most important process in knife production. And it always has been done properly (!) for ROSarms blades. How to check heat treating of the blade? Very simple - test number one: try to sharpen it. You will not be able to make the blade made of BG-45 razor sharp if heat treating was done wrong. Test number two - check how long time blade will hold the edge!

 

[zvir]

Quite good knives. I like it more then the Kizlyar. Vassili aka nozh2002 has a little such, maybe he can tell more in detail.

 

[digdeep]

If these knives are as good as described then they are real bargains. I have had my eye on Rosarms for quite a long time but have been waiting for actual user reports before buying any. I like their designs and their steel. Hope someone who has one can fill us in.

 

[Skean Dhu]

I bought the 'Taiga' model and took it with me on a camping trip to the Adirondacks last summer. Used it for five days, cutting wood, batoning, food prep, general usage. It held up extremely well. I really like the design and have always been a fan of stacked leather handles. It's very well made, held a good edge (In fact, I was using it last week and sliced my finger pretty good!) I think they're good knives and wouldn't hesitiate to buy another one.

 

[JD Mandrell]

I've had this ROSarms Companion since November, have used it in the kitchen alot to try it out, meat and veggie cutting...etc.

Gotta say it has done great. Holds it's edge really well and the Birch handles are suprisingly easy to hang onto even wet.

 

[huugh]

There is also an older thread on this subject

Hardness is <59 Rc.110x18 was the best stainless steel in Soviet Union and always been used for military needs.

It's funny. No army in the world uses what's the best but either what's cheapest OR whose seller bribed government representatives best.


I don't believe the ad. During Cold war era Czechoslovakia produced huge amounts of steel, some of very high quality. However after fall of communism (as steel mills entered competitive markets) the mills and factories bankrupted or almost bankrupted (mainly because of incapable management, not because of quality). This accompanied with no or unsufficient investments in technology lead to current situation when China makers are competing with them in quality and overpowering with price.

The former "good" steels are either not in production anymore or inconsistent in quality. I'd bet it's the same in Russia.

 

[greater]

***********************************************
Huugh Said

"The former "good" steels are either not in production anymore or inconsistent in quality. I'd bet it's the same in Russia."
Reply With Quote
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I answer:
From my experience with three Russian knives that I own, a Rossarms Bison and Edelweiss as well as a Kizlyar wood handled Orlan Military all take wicked sharp edges. With Rossarms pay close attentention to blade thickness when ordering as some of their knives such as my Edelweiss have very thin blades they seem to be designed for functions such as skinning.
The Edelweiss arrived quite dull and took took a very long time to sharpen despite it's thin blade because it was well tempered (it also flexes). When I finnally got an edge on the knife it easily outcut any of my other knives it shears like you won't belive.
The Bison came well sharpened and had a thick blade unlike the Edelweiss. The Kizlyar Orlan Military came very sharp and has an extremely thick blade. Some people don't like shiny blades but I love them and all of the above came mirror polished. Aside from the mirror polish the Orlan looks very military.
My impression of these knives is they are first rate quality the Rossarms have great balance and the Kizlyar adequate balance they are far from cheap imports. They can take and hold a shaving sharp razor edge.
As far as I am concerned Russian Knives, at least these, do not get enough recognition.

 

[nozh2002]

It's funny. No army in the world uses what's the best but either what's cheapest OR whose seller bribed government representatives best.

Well this steel was used not for knives but for ball bearing in aero-space which require corrosian resistance. So I guess it is cheapest "possible" steel for that application, same as BG-42 here.

I am not sure about Czechoslovakia space program, but russian Souz is most used and most reliable space vehicle and US also buying big rocket engine from Energia company. And Russia just came up with maneurable warhead, which acts crazy on ballistic stage to avoid antymissiles. As well as MIG and SU still ahead in terms of engine and maneurability (of course it need supermaneurability if US AA missales have much bigger range...). This steel are purified with EAR and ESR (BG42 is only EAR-treated) and so ballbearings has 20 years warranty.

Beleave me commies did not save money on weapons, especially on aero-space programs, everything else suffer but army has everything best no matter for what cost.

With all this I may say that I use this knives for a while and only modern SRS15 so far shows some superiority (I am talking about big knives). As I understand RosArms has stock of this steel from old era. Also in general traditionally russian send abroad only best selected goods (like RosArms make special design for US - guard etc). I think you may take advantage of the fact that they are not yet well known and so underpriced a bit.

This this knives are not Soviet on my opinion, but more like old Russian style, before communism era. They are very ergonomic, lightweight (Utes with same sizes as Buck Solution twice lighter, which may be important for long hyking trip). I suggest to have birch bark handle - very comfortable - feel like cork, but durable.

And after all they are just beautifull! I am enjoing making pictures of them. Look on some of my shots:

Fox II

Ataman

Cliff

Thanks, Vassili.

 

[ausjulius]

huugh,
you are correct
the steel in russia is inconsistant, , the soviet stuff appears from time to time, it is good quality, and i think during soviet time the 110x18 steel was very good quality, as it was only made in small amounts for aviation and such things,

now it is crap, one sheet good another poor,
but big problem with knives in russia is the heat treatment, most porducers have crude heat treating, and many zlatoust makers are quite .. dodgy with this.

ive have several rosarms and air knvies now, and found they are ok, not bad at all , i like them , but some were much harder than others,,,
dosnt mean that the balde was soft like chease, but on rockwell testing the blade some were 59 rockwell.... some were 54, shure , they were made ages apart , but they were the same steel,

huge amounts of precision instrements for avation, military use, complexed high quality electric motors and medical implerments were imported from czechslovakia to russia, so i guess they were making good stuff,

in kizlyar we had some 7mm plates of 110x18, for filling internet orders, the stuff was made some time in the 1980s,
very good steel, got about 60-61 rockwell and still had some tougthness,

 

[kancler]

Hi! Just FYI ROSarms factory has a Rockwell meter now and they are checking all knives (knives made in 2006-2007).

 

[asi]

I do not think that 110x18 can be compared to BG42.

I've tested different russians steels on the knives with different edge geometries on hemp ropes, on plastic and wood. all the tested geometries were not so good as spm30v or ats34 or bg42 or INFI

I also noticed that some of them were not so easy to sharpen. I think that the problems are - bad heat treatment control and uneven chamical composition of the steels.

 

[ausjulius]

kancler, good to hear.. .. in russia knives from all makers have a bad reputation for being inconsistant..
and most makers dont check the hardness of their knives, ...
ive observed the zlatoust knives from all makers to be alittle inconsistant like this, and i know most havent equiptment to check them,
i found saro, even though making horrid looking knives had rather consistant heat treatment :O!!! , i suppose it is that they are quite a large factory,
in kizlyar wechecked all the internet order knvies for hardness, , but with the serial knvies only one or two from each batch heat treated it tested,, otherwies they would spend all day checking them.
with the internet ordered knives it is realy imporatnt is it the same exsact hardness its stated to be,, as seems the russian chaps on the forums check these things often, . when they are tested after the blade had the average hardness written on it in marker and a paper with iit, it is then ground and the paper put with the finished knife, but they seem to throw it away when they send it :S .. russia i guess, would make sence to send it to the owner,..


,
yes new russian steel is.. very suspect, if one spends much time controling ones order it is not to bad, but the steel companies are dishonest, and this is a big problem,
still it isnt to bad, the lower end steels compare to thier amriecan counterparts in quality, its just that the higher end steels like 110x18 or so, it is easy for a steel merchant to have some other steel 45x13 or so and just mark it so and then sell it.