Russian KO2, When I learn... We learn

[freehouse32]

I am still not to the point to do a complete review of my new Russian KO2 sharpener because I am missing a large portion of my order (for those that do not know, lost in the mail). I am slowly sharpening some blades that I would not ordinarily put a mirror finish on just to learn and use the Russian, if I had all the parts I would be diving in head first but until then this is the best I can do.

My first blade I sharpened with zero experience on the system was a boom parang and it finished scary scary sharp!!! I used some diamond stones just for this system.

A while back I saw some ultra cheap stones from China on eBay around a $1.90 USD each from 80 grit up to 3000 grit... for $22 USD I decided to give them a try to test some results, I used an ESEE to test the new stones on the very first try.

For anyone wanting to purchase a Russian KO2 I hope to make this a great source for information.

Here is what I have learned so far on the Russian KO2. It appears to me to be the best sharpener out there for larger and thicker blades like Busse.
If someone does get a Russian, step one recommendation would be to tighten every single screw on the system, and step two would be to get some allen keys to compliment the star keys.

Next would be to acknowledge that there is a cant in the system and to use the blade or flat spot behind the rotating arm as a base to measure the angle instead of the actual base.

Next would be to make sure to get the stronger reinforced springs because the weight of the arm and stone alone are enough to flex the normal springs affecting the angle while sharpening.

From here I would just recommend sharpening cheaper blades until you learn more. SO far I have used the el cheapo Chinese stones and some very nice Russian diamond stones. I will include pics but in a nut shell the Russian Diamond stones produced an extremely nice edge that is scary scary razor sharp on a Boom Parang that ended up at around 15 DPS.

Next, I used the elcheapo Chinese stones on an ESEE Laserstrike around 18 DPS and the Bevel finished amazingly but the edge was weak and not even hair popping sharp when done, then I passed it over 5 levels of hand stropping and then it became razor sharp. If you are on a budget and have or are good with hand strops the cheap Chinese stones could be a great way to move forward, if not the more expensive diamond stones all the way!

If just looking at pictures the cheap Chinese stones appear to produce a better edge but that is not the case, they just happen to make a better bevel for picture taking, the diamonds are the way to go and produce a much sharper and finer edge.

I am lacking lapping film, leather strops and balsa strops for the system to finish blades at the moment however I hope to have them in the next few weeks.

With that said here are some pics of the system and the two blades I have sharpened.

Diamond stones used are (on Busse Boom Parang)
80, 150, 320, 700, 1200, 5000, 15000 grit approximiately (Conversion taking place and the higher the grit the more inaccuate I believe the grit to be)

Chinese cheap Stones (on ESSE Laser Strike)
80, 150, 320, 400, 600, 800, 1000, 1200, 1500, 2000, 3000 grit

 

[duramax]

Hey Great write up and pics, thanks for posting. Edge looks great on that ESEE :thumbup:

Been on the fence about that system, just because of the overseas shipping.

 

[rcb2000]

Not sure if allowed, ballpark, what are you looking to spend on everything and shipping for what you got?

 

[freehouse32]

I am not sure if the price is allowed either so just PM for a ball park, but I can recommend ways to save money and give a base ball park.

The good news is that a lot of accessories for the edge pro type stones/systems can be found at budget friendly prices for quality products.

If you are on a budget and it determines whether you get the Russian or not, I would suggest step down to the KO1 but make sure it still has a place to mount an angle cube, (KO2 is the luxury version that just speeds up flipping the blade in a fancy way).

Next would be to get a decent mid price level set of stones for around 50 bucks and a some finishing strops blanks or lapping film blanks of your choice for around 10 each not counting the stropping compound or lapping film.

Another area to save money is to build your own base.

If you followed those suggestions you could be in the system for around the price of a Battle Grade SFNO or MOFO or ASH-1 off of the exchange, maybe slightly more depending on shipping weight. If you went will all the bells and whistles you are looking at around the price of a nice custom SFNO or ASH-1 off of the exchange and that would be including the fancy fitted case for 100 and shipping at 80.

If you are dealing in quality knives and actually using them, a high-end sharpener of your choice should be a no brainier.

I don't want to appear to be pushing this sharpener on anyone, I chose the KO2 for personal reasons and 3 of the biggest personal reasons were that I was already use to the sideways sharpening, the other was the sharpening bar being able to accommodate two clamps and securely holding 11"+ plus blades and the third is the clamps ability to accept just over 1/4" blades.

The two biggest negatives were the no getting around the 80 dollar shipping, and the back logged turn around time for delivery.

 

[safetyman]

Wow I've never heard of that system before but you did a great job with it. I like the fact that the edge doesn't get wider as it nears the tip...it stays consistent along the entire length of the cutting surface. I believe that is a function of the flexibility of the sharpening system and how that system is used so that appea/ to be a quality sharpener and you did fantastic with it.

 

[freehouse32]

Wow I've never heard of that system before but you did a great job with it. I like the fact that the edge doesn't get wider as it nears the tip...it stays consistent along the entire length of the cutting surface. I believe that is a function of the flexibility of the sharpening system and how that system is used so that appea/ to be a quality sharpener and you did fantastic with it.

To prevent the widening of the bevel at the tip you must make three measurements and cant the blade in the clamps. Its virtually impossible to get all three measurements the same. You just have to settle for close enough and then document how you clamped the blade for future sharpening for repeatability.

You can do this will most systems, you just need to realize this and take the proper steps to prevent the thinning of the tip of the blade.

 

[Ladams19]

I have been thinking of getting one of these pro sharpeners. Thanks for the write up.

 

[freehouse32]

Just trying to help some folks out, I know we all love Busse Combat and I personally want to squeeze every ounce of performance out of the blade I can! So far I have been extremely impressed and can't wait to learn more!!!

 

[PeteyTwoPointOne]

... document how you clamped the blade for future sharpening for repeatability.

snap some ref. pics with your phone

 

[freehouse32]

snap some ref. pics with your phone

I do that along with taking measurements. Pictures are a great reference and memory tool but by no means an effictive measurement unit.

 

[Ed1955]

freehouse32,
I thank you for your input on the K02. I ordered one for my best friend a while ago and it arrived about 5 days ago, he paid for it. First let me say up front, my opinions are just that, opinions. The K02 and the Wicked Edge are both state of the art, high end amazing systems that produce results that can be called perfection with enough practice. I haven't learned the K02 system like I've learned the best Wicked Edge has to offer. That being said, here's my second post on this topic and I appreciate any feedback, criticisms and observations. I'm not going to mention cost at all which will stop some enthusiasts right now, but I don't know all the rules by memory and frankly, it's not my system and the owner is more concerned in quality, performance and perfection, rather than cost. Don't we all wish we could live like that. As posted in another thread, we started with the WE systems about 8 months ago. Believe me when I tell you we did some serious grinding but more importantly we learned how to literally master the art of profiling, sharpening and polishing. The bottom line is that there is a ceiling in this skill or hobby, whatever the case may be. As posted previously, you will never read me saying one is better than the other because they both do the same thing. It really is a personal decision even though costs and value are huge factors. Anyone that thinks the WE system is over priced doesn't enjoy the process as much as the result like my friend and I. All of our knives are exactly like we want them but the learning curve was intense and as some know, expensive. Some can't get by the cost but look at it this way, some of us crave for an FN Five7 while others are very content with anyone of the Glocks. They both will defend you in a bad situation and it really becomes personal preference at some point. Don't get me wrong, I am not rich, wealthy, well off or living on Easy Street. Like a good friend always reminds me "When you're dead, you're dead for a long time" so live life within your means. The K02 is in direct competition with the WE Gen III system and accessories. In my opinion, with practice and patience they will both do the same exact thing. That is profile, sharpen to stupid levels and polish to mirror finishes. With the WE systems, we both reached the end of the challenge, again stupid sharp, equal bevels and mirror finishes by the human eye. Don't do like we did and buy digital microscopes because you will soon learn when it comes to polishing, perfection is limited to magnification. The K02 is like an AK-47, over built and engineered to last. It's such fun trying to duplicate the results of a WE on my favorite Hinderer. At some point it boils down to whether the concept of sharpening a knife is either just another tool, a business, a hobby or an addiction. You know where I ended up. Don't ever think you will pay for the system charging friends for jaw dropping results on their tactical knives, for most it won't happen.
I love both systems. To beat the WE, any system would have to be ingenious and priced in the same ballpark, which the K02 is. I'm retired so time is pretty much all I have and this skill is fun, seriously fun. At first I was a little nervous paypal transferring funds to a country which I would never visit. Trust this man and his engineering skills, product and customer service. There are no complaints about either system, only pluses. The one thing that comes to mind as far as an advantage is the absolute awe of the appearance of the K02. Non knife enthusiasts won't even guess what it is. It looks like it should be in an operating room or Doctors office. The machining, fit, finish, tolerances and versatility is probably unmatched. The only thing better than owning one of these systems is to own or have access to both. Without a doubt, pure psychosis or addiction. The results with practice of both systems will stun most people unless their in the fun of it. Paul and Clay are both educated businessmen with incredible engineering skills. Unfortunately I've been through numerous sharpening systems for over 50 years. Those days are over. All of my knives and my friends knives are perfectly tuned, sharpened and polished and it was all fun! Competition is good for any industry, especially the world of sharp blades.
Respectfully,
Ed1955

 

[Bdtry]

Firehouse32, the 2nd screw that really sticks out is to spread the jaws apart to the thickness of the blade and the front ones tighten down to match the grind. This way you get a super solid clamp fit for each knife. If you don't spread the jaws on thicker knives they can move up and down in the clamps which causes your angle to be off. It also takes less force to clamp them them in the way I described.

 

[freehouse32]

I am aware of this, thank you, after using the rear screw to spread the jaws I insert the blade, then back off completely on the spreading screw and clamp down on the clamping scews to ensure the the front screws attempting to clamp are not fighting the rear screws, unless I need a pivot point from the rear screw which is typically not the case but it depends on the knife and the grind. thx freehouse32

Firehouse32, the 2nd screw that really sticks out is to spread the jaws apart to the thickness of the blade and the front ones tighten down to match the grind. This way you get a super solid clamp fit for each knife. If you don't spread the jaws on thicker knives they can move up and down in the clamps which causes your angle to be off. It also takes less force to clamp them them in the way I described.

 

[freehouse32]

I recently asked if Paul or anyone had made a thickness compensator for the Tsprov KO2 yet, and I was quickly responded to by other members and the designer Paul (Tsprof), that this machine does not need a thickness compensator and that the analog gauge on the side is all you need.

Well...

First things first, I have been using the analog gauge on the side of the arm (AG) and paying attention to it in comparison to my angle cube and the AG is always off... I could not trust it in anyways for a precision edge, which after all is why you are most likely getting this system, so you can maximize the sharpness of whatever you are sharpening.

So then, after being met with the certainty and assurance that this system did not need nor could benefit from a thickness compensator, I set out to find out one way or another, because I had serious doubts but only speculation until today.

I went to the local hardware store and picked up a pack of nuts threaded at M10x1.5 and a thumb screw four just over 2 dollars. I proceeded to drill and tap one of these nuts to make a thickness compensator/stop collar depending on what you want to call it.

Then I installed the thickness compensator (TC) into the KO2 and assembled everything.

Then I clamped down an ESEE Laserstrike I had previously sharpened to 18.5 degrees per side (DPS). I choose the 18.5 degrees for a reason.

My first speculation for the AG was how can you tell with any precision that the sharpener is at a .5 DPS increment??? The answer is you can't you can only get close with the AG. You have a few methods to ensure you are at the right angle at this point, an angle cube, the sharpie test, or a protractor, or your stick with your best guess with the AG.

This is where I started conducting my test. I took 3 stones that were all different thickness to run the test. They are all three different colors for easy tracking. I bought some cheap stones from China while I wait for all my strops and finishing products from Paul on the next shipment in March. The stones from China cost 22 dollars and range from 80 grit to 3k but they are all a different thickness. All 3 stones are designed to work in the Edge Pro like systems.

Note the 3 stones in the picture below. The grey diamond stone is my base stone.

First, to establish a baseline I inserted the diamond stone and measured out everything to the correct angle with an angle cube on the blade. Then I took the diamond stone out of the stone holder and used it set the thickness of the stone on the angle adjusting arm using my home made thickness compensator. I left the thickness compensator alone at this point.

Notice the correct base line measurement of 18.5 DPS with the thin grey stone.

Next: I conducted the sharpie test to ensure I had the right angle which I did and all the sharpie was removed beautifully.

Before test:

After Test:

Next: I adjusted the arm on the AG to read as close as I could tell, to 18.5 DPS as I could.

Next, I put in the red stone and tried to adjust to 18.5 DPS with my eye using the AG.

Then I measured the stone with the angle cube, notice the red stone in the picture. At 17.90 the AG is off and I am no longer very close at all to my 18.5 DPS

Then I conducted the sharpie test which confirmed the angle is off.

Then I inserted the white stone and tried to line up with the AG to 18.5 DPS. Note in the picture the angle looks a little more off than the others but its hard to line up and take pictures on my phone while trying to get everything to focus.

Then I put the angle cube on the white stone for a readout. 18.15 DPS

Then another sharpie test. Once again it is off but not as much this time, but when you look at the sharpie test you can still see it makes a big difference.

Now, this is where things get really fun for me. This is where I was told this machine does not need a thickness compensator because of the AG already installed. I would also like to point out that from this point forward on the thickness compensator test, this is ABSOLUTELY, POSITIVELY THE FIRST TIME I TRIED THIS, and in the second and so on pics I got better, faster, and more precise with this tool. With that said even my first time trying it, I was off but way closer than the AG.

So the first test I, took the red stone and stuck it underneath my homemade TC and on top of the brass locking nut to get the correct thickness. Then I inserted the stone in the arm and measured with an angle cube. Notice the red stone in the pic and the read out is 18.4 DPS which is way more accurate than the previous 17.9 DPS.

Next, I did a sharpie test, The test did not work out as well as it should have for being so close but I think it really had more to do with variances over the length of the cheap 1 dollar stones from China than the angle itself. But either way the sharpie test results the stone would have still sharpened well, the imperfection would have been on the back side of the bevel.

Then I took a picture of the read out of the red stone at 18.5 DPS with the AG.

Next, I did the same with the white stone and took a picture of the TC portion (forgot that pic on the red stone)

Then I took the angle cube measurement with a read out of 18.5 DPS!!! Getting better on my second try! Notice the white stone in the picture.

Next, I did another sharpie test and it worked perfectly! Also, note on most of the sharpie test I left half the sharpie still on the blade to the right and used the portion on the left to conduct the test.

Then I took a pic of what the AG read out. To the eye, it appears to be close to 18.5 DPS but then again so have all the others...

Then I did the gray diamond stone in the TC but forgot to take a picture again. But I did take a picture of the angle cube read out after and it was spot on again at 18.5 DPS! Notice the gray stone in the picture.

Then another sharpie test which worked out amazingly again!

Here is the last pic with the thinnest stone sitting on top of the brass locking nut with the difference from the top of the stone to the bottom of the thickness compensator to illustrate the difference in stone thickness we were dealing with and how it affected the sharpening angle.

Conclusion: Yes this system needs a thickness compensator and for such a cheap addition it significantly outperforms the built in angle gauge which only gets you close...

Is the angle gauge that is built into the machine accurate? To an extent, it is kind of maybe accurate. It will get you close but there is too much degree of variation to be relied upon for precision sharpening.

In my opinion for me and me only, if I am spending over 600 dollars and more for a machine like this, the accuracy that the AG provides me with is not acceptable and does not provide a precise enough measurement to achieve the hair popping edges for a machine like this.

Is the AG close enough to be used with the sharpie test to feel things out and then feel out the correct angle? Yes, but it will be cumbersome and time-consuming and truthfully not worth your time.

Is my home made thickness compensator more accurate than the AG??? I think the proof is in the pudding from the pics that for two dollars you can achieve far more precision using a thickness compensator than the angle gauge provided, and for TWO dollars it should be a no brainer!!!

Cold hard truth: My thickness compensator worked very well and after a couple of tries I got pretty quick at it and felt the precision from it can only be bested by an angle cube, with that said the angle cube which I already have is more precise but takes a tad longer to use in the long run, whereas the TC takes some getting use to but is an extremely cheap addition that dramatically increases accuracy over the provided angle gauge.

Right now my TC is a nice addition but it can easily be improved upon.

If my TC had a larger shoulder or if Tsprof included a second brass lock nut with nylon thumb screws so you don't to worry about damaging threads etc.

This will provide to be an outstanding budget friendly tool and an excellent back up to the angle cube for when the batteries fail. I see myself using both but for now until I get quicker and more efficient with the TC my angle cube will still be used first.

 

[resinguy]

Nice. Very thorough work.

 

[freehouse32]

Thx! I hoping to just help people out who may have questions on this bad boy.

I am still waiting on all my strops and finishing stones and other accessories from Russia... SO I have not been able to put any super edges on a blade yet, but hopefully soon.

To date this is by far the biggest issue with this system. It is been over 5 months and I still do not have everything I ordered.

I have been growing inpatient and want to just buy a set of Shapton glass and call it a day... but I do not want to spend all that coin... Or at least all that coin untill I know that what I have already on order won't get me to where I want to go...

Does anyone have any experience with Shapton Glass for edge pro?