S&w E&E, or the Kershaw siege?

C

Crowblades

Joined
Aug 7, 2016
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I am looking for a tactical tomahawk to carry(end days scenario) for base level defense/offense, likely end up more as a tool for random tasks of things I don't want my knife to break doing. I am below the 100$ line unfortunately. I'm looking at these two hawks at the moment. Not sure the structure and hardness durability of the Kershaw seige, but the weight is the ball park of easy carry. The s&w e&e is a steel that am familiar with, tho will need a large overhaul to get to the weight that is preferable. I can "I-BEAM" the neck section of the hawk and skeletonized the handle with micarda handle scales..
My question, both in the same price range, which would out last the other given a life of moderate abuse just outside the intended levels? The Kershaw siege made of a Chinese(all be it improved) 440 stainless/3cr13. Or the Smith & Wesson E&E, lightened up to similar weight? (a hopefull 20-30oz total weight) and given a re-profiled edge that can cut deeply..
 
Crowblades said:
I am looking for a tactical tomahawk to carry(end days scenario) for base level defense/offense, likely end up more as a tool for random tasks of things I don't want my knife to break doing. I am below the 100$ line unfortunately. I'm looking at these two hawks at the moment. Not sure the structure and hardness durability of the Kershaw seige, but the weight is the ball park of easy carry. The s&w e&e is a steel that am familiar with, tho will need a large overhaul to get to the weight that is preferable. I can "I-BEAM" the neck section of the hawk and skeletonized the handle with micarda handle scales..
My question, both in the same price range, which would out last the other given a life of moderate abuse just outside the intended levels? The Kershaw siege made of a Chinese(all be it improved) 440 stainless/3cr13. Or the Smith & Wesson E&E, lightened up to similar weight? (a hopefull 20-30oz total weight) and given a re-profiled edge that can cut deeply..
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Neither, check out an American made estwing tomahawk, or better yet what about a Vaughan riggers axe for about 40$ or half hatchet for about 25$.
 
Or you can take the cold steel Trench Hawk. I own one, great tool!

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I also have a trench hawk. And I did love it. Tho I snapped the handle on a bad throw.. I also have broken an eastwing. And unfortunately they are not a true solid piece. It's. Tube that has been flattened and welded. I'm looking for a solid steel tactical hawk for exit/entry situations, defensive/offensive against both blunt and sharp edges. I have an amazing pipe hawk for survival and bushcraft. Did a full mod on the cold steel and it came out great. This is however not for bushcraft or "survival" camping. I am looking for a hawk to keep me alive if ever this world is thrown into a "book of Eli" turn of events. For such an item I would wish for a RMJ, tho how many of us actually have the cash for that..
I could fully overhaul and grind down a s&w to ALMOST be like an RMJ... tho would I have to if the Kershaw siege really can hold up to there hype?
 
Crowblades said:
I also have a trench hawk. And I did love it. Tho I snapped the handle on a bad throw.. I also have broken an eastwing. And unfortunately they are not a true solid piece. It's. Tube that has been flattened and welded. I'm looking for a solid steel tactical hawk for exit/entry situations, defensive/offensive against both blunt and sharp edges. I have an amazing pipe hawk for survival and bushcraft. Did a full mod on the cold steel and it came out great. This is however not for bushcraft or "survival" camping. I am looking for a hawk to keep me alive if ever this world is thrown into a "book of Eli" turn of events. For such an item I would wish for a RMJ, tho how many of us actually have the cash for that..
I could fully overhaul and grind down a s&w to ALMOST be like an RMJ... tho would I have to if the Kershaw siege really can hold up to there hype?
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The standard estwing axes, hammers, and riggers axes are solid steel.
Was it their tomahawk you were talking about ?
 
Eastwing is not solid. At least the one I had was not. Tho many(not all) axe/hawk that claims solid and has a thin neck with a flare out that leads to the roundish handle with full slip on rubber grip.. is going to be a hollow tube. A hallow tube that has been (possible forge) flattened and welded to the head. When my eastwing broke I collapsed and bent the hallow handle. One way to check is to put an acid or etch on the thin edge of the neck. Once the tubes are flattened often there is weld added to the thin section in places that cracked the pipe during the process. Sometimes u can see were the weld wasn't fully ground off amd leaves a little scale that looks different the the rest of the metal. Many of Eastwing at Lowe's or home depot are built in this fashion. Think about the weight distribution of your eastwing, if it was a true solid structure, would the balance be so well placed right by the head? When set on its balance point, does the handle vibrate slightly independent of the whole body if smacked lightly..? All signs of a hallow tube construction. It's still one piece. Just hallow and welded.
 
Crowblades said:
Eastwing is not solid. At least the one I had was not. Tho many(not all) axe/hawk that claims solid and has a thin neck with a flare out that leads to the roundish handle with full slip on rubber grip.. is going to be a hollow tube. A hallow tube that has been (possible forge) flattened and welded to the head. When my eastwing broke I collapsed and bent the hallow handle. One way to check is to put an acid or etch on the thin edge of the neck. Once the tubes are flattened often there is weld added to the thin section in places that cracked the pipe during the process. Sometimes u can see were the weld wasn't fully ground off amd leaves a little scale that looks different the the rest of the metal. Many of Eastwing at Lowe's or home depot are built in this fashion. Think about the weight distribution of your eastwing, if it was a true solid structure, would the balance be so well placed right by the head? When set on its balance point, does the handle vibrate slightly independent of the whole body if smacked lightly..? All signs of a hallow tube construction. It's still one piece. Just hallow and welded.
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Not sure which estwings your talking about, but most estwings ( like their stacked leather sportsman hatchet ) are forged from a solid piece of steel and I'm not even aware from an estwing tool that uses a tubular handle.
Are you sure yours was actually made by estwing ? ( FYI I don't own an estwing because I can't stand any axe or hammer without a wood handle , but I have seen a video of them being made and they are definitely forged from 1 solid piece of steel )
 
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Grafknives makes one within your budget. Check the gear and gadgets thread here.
 
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I didn't say all eastwing hawks were made that way, I described a type of hawk. that type of hawk is a common budget construction used by many companies. The particular hawk that failed for me, was an eastwing. I believe i had the 26" camper. The blue or purple rubber handle version. That bent and snapped and reviled a thin wall hallow body. I like the grafknives hawks. Very nice. And right about at the 100$ mark. Thank you jwill05! I'll be researching these this week.
 
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Crowblades said:
I didn't say all eastwing hawks were made that way, I described a type of hawk. that type of hawk is a common budget construction used by many companies. The particular hawk that failed for me, was an eastwing. I believe i had the 26" camper. The blue or purple rubber handle version. That bent and snapped and reviled a thin wall hallow body. I like the grafknives hawks. Very nice. And right about at the 100$ mark. Thank you jwill05! I'll be researching these this week.
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Oh! you had the camp axe, I forgot about that one .Those do have some sort of piece added to them where the grip is attached. I wasn't sure which estwing you were talking about, they did that in an attempt to reduce shock ( none of the 18" or less tools are construction this way )
Anyway thanks for the clarification and sorry for the misunderstanding.
 
My question, both in the same price range, which would out last the other given a life of moderate abuse just outside the intended levels?
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Since these things asked about are intended to be masculine art & not a serious working tool, who knows what might outlast the other.
Play acting is fun and all, But a Riggers axe is far better useful in realistic SHTF.
Beware the guy with magic flute or nosering pliers...

BTW, The only tubular handle of Estwing axes is one of their long handle camp axes. Everything aside from their wooden haft tools & a long handle scooping tool is solid forging.
If one did manage to break their camp axe, It was being abused well beyond its intended level.
 
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IMO Estwing does not make a "serious working tool." I find nearly all of their tools to be extremely unwieldy, poorly balanced, overly heavy, badly ground, and seriously lacking in quality control. If I had a $100 budget I'd probably go with a grafknives hawk.
 
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Park Swan said:
IMO Estwing does not make a "serious working tool." I find nearly all of their tools to be extremely unwieldy, poorly balanced, overly heavy, badly ground, and seriously lacking in quality control. If I had a $100 budget I'd probably go with a grafknives hawk.
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While I can't stand a non natural handle I've handled a few estwings and they felt about as nice as an all steel swinging tool could.
Maybe the issues you've experienced weren't actually specific to estwing.
 
Thank you for those who read my question and didn't get hung up on irrelevant comments.
I do not come from a playfulness and frivolity when I came to this forum asking for help. I am aware of the current condition of my country while most ignorantly(not there fault) wait for what is to come.
There is a possibility of war coming. The relation of the US and the countries that dont use the federal reserve are degrading quickly. Just recently Putin payed and banished the Rothschild's from Russian borders making the list of countries that back there currency by gold even larger. That's a problem because the US dollar is not! Every one knows it's the banks that really run the US. The banks are owned and answer to the federal reserve (FR). The FR is owned by the Rothschild family. Privately owned and not affiliated with the US government. That's y if u ever see a FR building, it says "private property" and not "property of the united States government" The Rothschild family is the holders of the largest known supply of gold. They decide daily what the value of gold is for the stock market. They took over the US Treasury back in 1937, and created a system of credit that we use today as the US dollar. That's right, the dollar is not a currency of a represented value, it's a notation of debt owed to the Rothschild family given out as tradable credit. So what's that going to mean when the countries backed by gold start to buy up the world's resources? America starts a war to stop them and become a dominant global force. A war! I can hear people scoffing as they read in complacent ignorance.
One month ago Obama signed a bill that allows UN troops to be deployed on US soil to aid in civil unrest and emergency. This bill gives the UN troops the right to make field decisions without consulting local authorities. That means foreign troops on American soil fighting citizens. 29 countries signed the bill to aid the US. Were are the American troops? Most over seas! UN troops vehicles have been seen imported in mass numbers into Texas and a few other states.
Another bill was signed by Obama this last Friday. A bill that gives complete control over the country's energy and distribution of resources in both times of piece and conflict. A martial law. This bill is often signed by the President in times of war just as a precaution. Tho this was a first that the bill was amended before it was signed. The amendment changes the definition of the words conflict and emergency to such a broad range that it can be implemented for any type of domestic struggle.
So I don't come from a place of want to play with a new toy. I come from a serious place of protecting my ass and the asses of those I love in to oncoming struggle of desperation that is going to lay across the country like a black fog of poverty. When the power goes off, and foreign soldiers walk the streets. When the trucks stop delivering and only go to Walmarts that have been militarized(it's already happening! look it up. Most famous is in Tulsa.). How many people will get desperate to feed there family.
My intended use of this hawk that I search for, is to protect myself and whats mine. There will be a day soon that won't be sunshine and active forums. There will be a day when the bullets that people have stock piled will run dry, and then people will pick up whatever they can to keep what they have, and to take what others have found. I look for a hawk to defend against the machetes(if not right thru a wood handle, would just never be the same after) and the clubs. To take away the weapons of the those who wish me harm(martial practitioner). I look for a hawk that can chip and cut and pry open doors, crates of food, walls that block and trap people or supplies I may need.
I did not state these things to start a conspiracy theory discussion and I would appreciate if most of it was just read and remembered. I welcome and urge you to look up these things and educate yourselves on the things that Western media will hide from our eyes.
I came to this forum for help finding a tool to keep me alive, that I can afford, and that can stand up to melee combat. Thank you to those that understood that.
 
Maybe check out those UN trucks in Texas. They're no doubt equipped with axes.
They must be doing something right, & you can't go wrong when you copy what the dominat military force does.
If some of these UN Trucks are German, or Czech they are equipped with a Carpenter's axe.
And as we know, an average soldier no matter what country they're from is no stranger to abusing equipment.

Otoh, Ask the Rothschild family what axe is they'd recommend.
As the song goes..
"When your'e rich, they think you really know..."
 
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Hickory n steel said:
While I can't stand a non natural handle I've handled a few estwings and they felt about as nice as an all steel swinging tool could.
Maybe the issues you've experienced weren't actually specific to estwing.
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Sure, could be! I have an older of the leather stacked handle hammer which isn't too bad. Part of my issue is likely inherent to making an all steel (+rubber handle) axe too big. The steel handle idea only works at a given size/weight, pushing it too far results in only disadvantages over traditional construction. It's something I think about constantly as a maker of full tang axes. I don't think I could design one that would sufficiently perform once the model is more than 16" long and/or approaching 2lbs, because at that point it'll be outperformed easily by a well made traditional model in every way (save being unnecessarily indestructible). Which brings me to the real use for an estwing camp axe: super long distance axe throwing :D
 
Crowblades......You go on about how everything is falling apart and you need a tomahawk to protect your life and your family. Foreign troops walking the streets and basically end of the world type scenario.......... yet your hung up on not spending $100 for this end of the world tool?????

This makes zero sense. If you were really this serious about the shit hitting the fan............you would find a way to come up with more than $100 for this tool.
 
Crowblades, I hear what you are saying. I have an embarrassingly large amount of toilet paper stashed.

Three days without basics and even the nicest people will do "not so nice" things.

Don't know the ins and outs of tomahawks but how about the S&W? - It's American made it seems.
 
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