S&W Magnesium Folder: Why the High Price?

C

Confederate

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Sep 5, 2005
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Okay, this is probably going to elicit some strange remarks, but here's the deal. The knife is a Smith & Wesson HRT (Hostage Rescue Team), with a 4-inch blade. It's made from 440C stainless steel and has a partially serrated blade with bead blast finish and ambidextrous thumb studs. It sports black magnesium handles with lanyard hole and a stainless steel pocket clip. The model is the SWHRTMGS.

I know many people on this forum don't like and wouldn't buy a Smith & Wesson knife. This question isn't for them unless they know specifically about this particular knife.

The knife goes for $45-$55 and I just happened to have one in my collection. Where I got it I have no idea, but I know I didn't pay anywhere near the asking price.

The knife has very good balance and a sleek spear point blade. The handles look to be some sort of plastic, somewhat better than Zytel, and as stated above are advertised to be magnesium. The frame does seem to be some sort of metal, and I'm assuming this metal is a selling point. Other than that, it appears to be a decent liner lock design.

The question I have is 1) why is the knife so expensive? There are many knives in that price range that are undoubtedly better. And 2) why would BladeMatrix.com be selling the knife for $11.99? This isn't the first time I've seen a price variance this large, but this knife's high selling price on other sites has me intrigued. The bloody thing retails for $81, which is very high for a S&W. I also can't find any "Made in China" stamps, which makes me wonder whether it is.

I've seen several S&W knives of late that have actually impressed me. It appears that the company is improving some of its line. I recently purchased a number of their Homeland Security Tanto fixed-blade knives, which are going for only $29.99 at Smoky Mountain Knife Works. It's going for at least ten dollars over that just about everywhere I've looked and the knife's balance and weight greatly impressed me. I also got the LAST S&W PowerGlide that Smoky Mountain had for $9.99, which was an incredible price. It's going for $30+ everywhere else.

There are also a number of their knives that are pretty much junk. They have a tanto framelock folder that is a tanto on the left side of the blade and is flat on the other. Why they would even make such a knife is beyond me, but the frame is beefy and the lock is very secure.

I also have an Extreme Ops that is inexpensive, yet holds an edge very well (better than one of my CRKT knives with an AUS8 blade). The lockup is typical liner lock, which ain't great, yet the blade snaps and locks without the blade being opened at all. Just a snap of the wrist and it's out and locked.

Anyway, please post your comments.

SWHRTMGS.jpg


......................
Price of S&W Magnesium seems a bit high, but why?
 
No one here has a Smith & Wesson Magnesium folder?
There must be some reason these knives continue to
be sold at the prices they are.

Also, do Smith & Wesson knives have a website? Or
does Taylor Cutlery handle all the defects, etc.?
 
The handle is indeed magnesium, however, even with that and the great design (heard Darryl Ralph had a hand in that) there is no way I'd pay full list.

Besides, just a couple of months ago it was being blown out for a song though the online dealers (discontinued?).

So the mystery of the high list price continues . . .
 
Yep, as noted in my original post, you can now get
them for $11.99. But when you say the handle is made
from magnesium, is that some sort of an advantage?

The knife is billed as a law enforcement tool. Hostage
Rescue, to be exact. But liner locks are notoriously
unreliable unless it has something like CRKT's LAWKS.
You can get a CRKT LAWKS knife for well below the
selling price of the Smith & Wesson magnesium.

Presently, the only thing that makes this better than
the other liner locks is the magnesium handle and
perhaps the fact that Darryl Ralph helped design it.

I've searched the Internet, but the knife is sold
for about fifty bucks without comment. No "mag-
nesium handles are better because...." or anything
else. I'm not even sure where it's made since there's
no "Made in China" stamp on it.
 
This is one model of four:

SWHRTMGS - combo edge satin blade, used to have MRSP of $80.95 - now on closeout, with dealers charging what they think they can get for it.

SWHRTMG - Plain edge satin - present MRSP is $80.95

SWHRTMGB - Plain black Teflon coated blade - MSRP $83.95
SWHRTMGBS - Combo edge black Teflon coated blade - $83.95

At that MSRP, I would expect these (3) models would be retailing at most locations, for around $50.00.

All models made in Tawain.

I believe the advantage of the Magnesium handles is weight; although they will probably feel too slick for some users.

Don't know why the closeout price on just one model; but for a S&W it is a nice knife; especially considering its' original MSRP. I plan on taking one out of inventory before they are no longer available from wholesalers; (which I think is just about now :().
 
Well, it's too bad Smith & Wesson did not do
more to distinguish the knife other than a
magnesium frame and a frosted blade. Still,
the blade is 440C, which from Taiwan is likely
to be superior to the mainland Chinese knives.
Wonder why it's not stamped into the knife
somewhere? Anyway, it's still a mystery as
to why S&W decided to price the knives so
high. Wouldn't mind having one with a black
teflon coated blade.

It is a well made knife, but there are plenty
of inexpensive well made knives with better
features. I mean, you look at the knife and
you try to find something unique that would
justify an eighty dollar knife and unless mag-
nesium has just been declared a precious
substance, it's just elusive.

cb_1.JPG


This is one S&W knife that I actually carry with me as
a backup knife. My only complaint is that it rides a bit high
in the pocket.
 
The knife in the original post?

I bought one about a year ago to see what it was about.
Paid $5.01, I recall, and a few bucks shipping.

The one I got was made in mainland China.

I played around with it for a little while, and it ended up in the garbage shortly thereafter.

It was worth maybe $5.01.
 
First of all, there is no "S&W Knives". Smith & Wesson sold off rights to its name for knives several years and at least one owner ago. The owner of the name ripped off a few DDR designs, and I heard Darrel complained and got them to collaborate on these better-made versions of his designs, not to make him look bad with cloned junk.

There are a few different S&W models that are reliable and worth their price. Which ones? Who can keep up? :p

Liner locks are not inherently hazardous. Done well, they can work fine within the limitations of any folder -- the lock is an assist, not absolute security.
 
rifon2 said:
The knife in the original post...I bought one about a year ago...was made in mainland China. I played around with it for a little while, and it ended up in the garbage.
Click to expand...
What exactly was wrong with it? Was it the blade, the overall build?

I know that S&W doesn't make its own products and that it was letting its name appear on some absolute pieces of garbage, but I do give it credit for trying to become better at a time when Gerber and CRKT are getting into the trash knife business.

Although I don't find anything particularly praiseworthy about the magnesium-handled knife, I certainly don't think it's junk; just overpriced. Again, mine isn't marked as to where it was made, but I'd be surprised if it was China.

About liner lock knives, I realize they're problably safe, but this knife is touted as a Hostage Rescue Knife, and I don't believe that liner lock knives make for good combat or self defense knives. For those types of situations, a lockback knife, or a CRKT LAWKS knife, or even a frame lock would be vastly superior. I know there's a faction that believes that all locking knives should be treated as if they were slip joints, but that just isn't practical for tactical knives. People don't carry 5- or 6-inch blade Cold Steel Voyagers for cutting up fruit and vegetables, though they may be fine for that.

For routine cutting jobs, the S&W knife is fine. It also opens quickly, which gives it some tactical value, but overall, I'd choose something else.
 
i have one and i like it very much. it came shaving sharp from the box and locks up solid. ive spine whacked it a couple times and it has held its lock with no problems. i have several smith knives and most are well made and have very strong locks. i cant stand to find a good looking well made knife and then discover it has a weak lock. that is the one thing that has impressed me the most with the smith's, they have very thick liners which makes for strong locks. i also have one like confedreate carries as his backup and it is a very well made and very strong knife. i love the "flipper" on the blade and mine works just as smooth when flipping the blade open if not more so than my crkt m16. the only weak point ive discovered with my smiths is they dont hold a fantastic edge but they do hold a good edge and to me thats not a big deal anyway because i dont mind sharpening my knives when they need it. as a matter of fact ive read on here at blade forum about all these new "super steels" edges chipping and tips breaking off from just cutting average materials and boring holes in plastics. my smiths have never chipped and their tips have never broken off like the "super steels" have. i think dollar for dollar they are one of the great values on todays knife market just like crkt's are. ,,,thats my opinion anyway.,,,VWB.
 
vwb563 said:
i think dollar for dollar they are one of the great values on todays knife market just like crkt's are. ,,,thats my opinion anyway.,,,VWB.
Click to expand...

Come ON guys, we all know that Smith & Wesson knives are just not very good.
 
rifon2 said:
Come ON guys, we all know that Smith & Wesson knives are just not very good.
Click to expand...

SMKW had the partial CE for 8.99 and the PE for 54.99!. I got 3 of the CE to play with. Two would not lock. I had to grind down the liners so they would lock. The steel is supposedly 440C. It got razor sharp but would not hold an edge. I took the one that locked to work. It lasted 4 days before the blade broke. I was not prying with it, just cutting difficult materials. I have done the exact same thing with buck, spyderco, kershaw, byrd and benchmade folders with no problems. The other two will lock but will not stay together. The pivot pin loosens up with little use. As far as the folders go I have to agree with Rifon2 and Confederate. I have never had any fixed blade knives except their throwing knives. These have actually performed very well under heavy abuse.
 
i had them when i first started out with my collection and as quick as i started it and learned about quality, the faster i gave them things away in shame.i call them a waste of money
 
Well, what happens when what you're hearing doesn't square with what you're experiencing? Having one of the HRT Magnesiums, myself, I was impressed. The weight, build, balance and workmanship actually looked darn good. How could so many of you be wrong? It didn't make sense.

So I got in an order today and pulled out my second HRT Magnesium. It was in a black box, while my first had been in a blue box. Big deal, right? Well, as I handle it, it felt good. Balance, weight...it seemed nice, but then I spotted the first difference. It didn't snap open like the first one did. Okay, it could just be tight; then I noticed that the "Performance" seal wasn't on the right side of the blade. That was minor too, but I was starting to worry. Inspecting the blade further I discovered that the word "China" was stamped in tiny letters around the rotator cuff. No letters were stamped into my first knife.

Then other differences. The retaining screw was different and my first knife had tiny white washers on the inside of the cuff, right next to the blade. These were absent on the Chinese knife. There were other tiny differences, but then I noticed a big difference. The serrations in the Chinese knives were coated with the blade; the first knife was coated, then ground. The patterns were sharp and well defined.

Taking the shipping invoice, I picked up the second knife and attempted to cut the invoice with one of the serrations. Nothing. It just crumpled. Next, I picked up my first knife and tried the same. This time the sharened serration sliced right through the paper with no problem. Going back to the second knife, I sharpened the serrations with a small sharpening stone. After sharpening it, I tried cutting the invoice again, and again the dern thing wouldn't cut it. Not in the least.

I wish I could post the photos. Needless to say, I'm glad I didn't pay more for the second Smith & Wesson. I maintain that the first knife is of outstanding quality, though still overpriced when other knives of the same price range are considered. I also maintain that the fixed blade H.S. Tantos I got are very good for the $29.99 I paid for them.

The good HRT Magnesium, BTW, was made in Taiwan. The second one was, as stated, made in China. No wonder these knives were going for $11.99.

How can dealers still advertise them for nearly $50? Do people actually pay that price?

.

SWHRTMGS.jpg
swhrtmgs4.jpg


These knives are made in Taiwan. The retaining screw, thumb studs and
detailed serrations (top) give it away. So do the white washers next to the
blade, the Performance seal and the lack of country of manufacture (bottom).

swhrtmgs9.jpg


This also is a Tiawan knife. Again, the retaining
screw and thumb studs give it away.
 
Good job there, Confederate.

I have no issue with knives made in Taiwan; I think they're generally excellent.
 
makes sense. i have noticed the newer models of the ones the one i have, mine are made in taiwan, are not as good in the quality area but i hadnt made the connection with them being made in china now. i thought they all were made in china but after i took a look at mine i discovered they have the "Performance" seal which says r.o.c. i see now they are made in taiwan which explains why they are very good in the quality area. ive seen some new smith & wessons which were pretty sloppy built and that explains why. i hope they discover their quality has decreased in the new china made models and correct it before they mess up.,,,VWB.
 
Yeah, but they were out of their heads to make the Tiawan knife so expensive. I got a bunch of the Chinese ones for $11.99 each, essentially to give as gifts. Several of the ones I checked were tight and would not flip open at all, but the grips were very smooth and contoured. I suspect that as they loosen up, they'll be fine. Still, had I known they weren't going to be as good as my R.O.C. knife, I probably wouldn't have ordered them, even at the reduced price.

The single most important part of any knife is the blade, and the blades of the new knives are clearly inferior to the blade in my R.O.C. knife.
 
after double checking i found my hrt magnesium is indeed made in china. i purchased it recently not realizing the difference and once i looked it doesnt have the performance seal, but it does have the white spacers you were talking about. i really hadnt checked it out very much so i decided to take a good look at it. the blade is very tight in the handles but i suspect this would loosen up after a while. i couldnt find a hex head wrench or i would have fixed it myself. anyway, the blade is very well ground and is EXTREMELY sharp from the box, it would shave arm hair effortlessly. the handles are well made and smooth, no defects were found on the blade or handles. so i decided to some cutting chores to check out the edge holding abilities. i first stated in the kitchen with tomato and apple cutting. peeling them went great but the blade was a bit thick for the slicing part. the point being so keen worked great for cutting out the center of the tomatoes and apples. next i decided to do some whittling on some old seasoned ceader wood. the darn thing whittled like an old case whittler pocket knife. it was still so sharp that whittling was no problem for it and the factory edge was at the correct angle so it absolutely whittled like a champ! after approx an hour of whittling being too hot outside i gave up and went back inside. i checked the edge and could detect hardly any, if any at all, difference in the sharpness of the edge. it would still shave arm hair effortlessly. overall i would rate it very close to the same quality as my first magnesium hrt, which i lost somewhere. i definately would not pay 50+ dollars for one of the these knives but i definately think they are worth the 11 to 15 dollar price they can be found now.,,thats my opinion anyway,,,VWB.
 
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