Recommendation? S110V with standard EP Stones

darth_cholo

darth_cholo

Joined
Mar 29, 2010
Messages
392
Should I even try sharpening S110V with standard Edge Pro Aluminum Oxide Water stones on my Hapston V7(Apex type sharpener?)

Word on the street is you need diamond stones for harder steels like S110v, Maxamet, and M4.
 
If you are OK with a coarse edge at the #400 EP stone or less, they should be fine.

Polishing can be done, but you need silicon carbide or diamond stones/paper/films/strop for efficiency.
Silicon carbide sandpaper is a very cheap option.
You can glue it on a lapping film blank, assuming that it is included with Hapstone.
Diamond lapping films are also available.
 
You may want to keep an eye on this thread I'm getting ready to try the Silicon Carbide stones on S110v and also on M4 very soon,I hope tomorrow or the next day I will get to trying the S110v.
I think diamonds or CBN will work best to set the angle and then if a polished is wanted these stones may work well on S110v but with the nature of S110v I'm not making any assumptions as to what's going to happen,S110v steel is a great steel for taking a good working edge but does not really take a scary sharp edge but it does seem to hold it's working edge for a good while witch is what I like about.

I have heard the Gritalon stones have a great reputation in Russia and they just love them over there and I can see why if you stones that polish these stones sure do and rival the Chosera's for sure,I think M4 and Maxamet are better suited for a polished if that's what your going for I know I tried giving a few S110v knives polished edges and was let down because the steel just does not take a scary sharp edge like M4 and Maxamet,when I test the Gritalons I plan on using the highest grits I have of the Silicon Carbide stones and that only to see if the higher grits cut a higher Vanadium content steel very well.

https://bladeforums.com/threads/gritalon-silicon-carbide-and-aluminum-oxide-stones-review.1563787/

darth_cholo said:
Should I even try sharpening S110V with standard Edge Pro Aluminum Oxide Water stones on my Hapston V7(Apex type sharpener?)

Word on the street is you need diamond stones for harder steels like S110v, Maxamet, and M4.
Click to expand...
 
Since SiC is softer than VC, I am not surprised that your results are not impressing you when going after S-110-V, Maxamet, and/or M4. All of these alloys contain Vanadium (9, 6, & 4% respectively). Your results probably improve as the V decreases.
 
I have tried the Gritalon stones on S110v Maxamet or M4 yet so there for I could not have any result's yet.


tiguy7 said:
Since SiC is softer than VC, I am not surprised that your results are not impressing you when going after S-110-V, Maxamet, and/or M4. All of these alloys contain Vanadium (9, 6, & 4% respectively). Your results probably improve as the V decreases.
Click to expand...
 
darth_cholo said:
Should I even try sharpening S110V with standard Edge Pro Aluminum Oxide Water stones
Click to expand...
Nah dude, nah.
You might get a really sharp edge with the Alu oxide, as I did with my Edge Pro Shapton Glass stones, but I found, after many resharpenings, experimenting with both those and diamond that the diamond does a much better job as far as the longevity of the sharpness. Especially with polished edges for push cutting (my preference).

I had three knives with S110V at the time. I still have two.
 
Thanks guys. Gonna start shopping for a set of 3 diamond stones for the hapstone(Apex type sharpener)
 
Then Venev stones are good stones but the one thing I don't like about them is that they only have 3mm of abrasive and I have heard some people say they refresh them from time to time with Silicon Carbide powder.If I were you I'd get the Metallic bonded CBN stones from Gritomatic or sharpeningstones.ru they may cost a bit more per-stone but they will also out last anything else on the market.I'm happy with both of the stones I have mentioned but if I had to choose just one brand it would the Metallic bonded CBN for how long they will last but the Venev stones have a bit more of a polishing effect that the CBN does not so you gain and lose with each stone.

darth_cholo said:
Thanks guys. Gonna start shopping for a set of 3 diamond stones for the hapstone(Apex type sharpener)
Click to expand...
 
darth_cholo said:
Thanks guys. Gonna start shopping for a set of 3 diamond stones for the hapstone(Apex type sharpener)
Click to expand...
Try out the venev diamond stones. Really great stones. Ive got a set for the kme.
While I have refreshed them with sic before Michael Christy and Big brown bear use hard water stones to unload them and refresh them with ease. Check out there YouTube channels on the stones. Wealth of information.


I'm going to be getting the hapstone m2 with metallic bonded diamond stones when the kickstarter finishes, but those may be another good option. Don't see them available on gritomatic yet.
 
Last edited:
tiguy7 said:
Since SiC is softer than VC, I am not surprised that your results are not impressing you when going after S-110-V, Maxamet, and/or M4. All of these alloys contain Vanadium (9, 6, & 4% respectively). Your results probably improve as the V decreases.
Click to expand...

Pardon my ignorance :rolleyes: but what is VC? Are you talking about Vanadium Carbide? Whichever it is where does it rank on the Moh's Hardness Scale? Interesting that you mention Silicon Carbide because I've had really good results using SiC sandpaper wrapped around Spyderco 204 Sharpmaker stones.

On my S110V blades I've pretty much just been using diamond and finishing with Spyderco's fine & ultra-fine stones. It's been working pretty well but I'm always open to try something better.
 
JD Spydo said:
Pardon my ignorance :rolleyes: but what is VC? Are you talking about Vanadium Carbide? Whichever it is where does it rank on the Moh's Hardness Scale? Interesting that you mention Silicon Carbide because I've had really good results using SiC sandpaper wrapped around Spyderco 204 Sharpmaker stones.

On my S110V blades I've pretty much just been using diamond and finishing with Spyderco's fine & ultra-fine stones. It's been working pretty well but I'm always open to try something better.
Click to expand...
SiC is lower on the scale of hardness than Vanadium. SiC will however sharpen the substrate around the Vanadium which is why people don't see any problems with getting the knife sharp or mirror polishing. But the Vanadium isn't getting sharpened. You can only see what's going on with a SEM microscope.
 
Mo2 said:
SiC is lower on the scale of hardness than Vanadium. SiC will however sharpen the substrate around the Vanadium which is why people don't see any problems with getting the knife sharp or mirror polishing. But the Vanadium isn't getting sharpened. You can only see what's going on with a SEM microscope.
Click to expand...

So what I'm understanding is this>> my SiC sandpaper won't abrade a high Vanadium blade steel? Probably the only stuff that I currently own that will would be all my diamond sharpening tools as well as my Spyderco ceramic stones and most likely their newer CBN stones>> So is that a correct assumption?

It does seem like many of these newer/better blade steels can only be sharpened by something way up the chart on the Moh's Hardness Scale. It probably won't be too much longer we'll be seeing blade steels that will only be sharpened by diamond? I don't think it will be all that much longer either?

It seems like older stones like Arkansas ( novaculite), Norton India, and Crystallon stones are all close to becoming obsolete??
 
I'm really on the fence on what direction to go with Edge Pro stones right now too. I've got the 180 & 400 DMT stones from CKTG and they're awesome for setting the initial bevel. From there though I just have some cheap stones up to 2500 and then the Edge Pro 3k\6k tapes and Balsa\Kangaroo Strops for polish.

CKTG just released a 1000 grit Edge Pro stone, so I'll probably pick that up as the next step from the 400, but I'm not sure where to go from there. Considering the Silicon Carbide set from Gritomatic and then jumping up to like an 8K Shapton Glass.

Also kind of thinking of going from 1k DMT from CKTG and then jumping to 4K Shapton Glass and then 8K Shapton Glass.

So many options for stones for this thing it's almost choice overload.
 
The spyderco ceramic stones will not sharpen Vanadium. That's not to say that it won't improve the edge as a finishing stone with very light pressure.

Only boron carbide, cbn, or diamonds.

Avoid the mohs scale and use the knoop or vickers. In any case there are already threads on all this if you do some searching.

JD Spydo said:
It seems like older stones like Arkansas ( novaculite), Norton India, and Crystallon stones are all close to becoming obsolete??
Click to expand...
I don't think so. Plenty of knives don't have high concentration of Vanadium.
 
Last edited:
What kind of steels are you planning on sharpening with Shapton Glass stones,I have shapton glass stones but I'm not all that thrilled with them for many reasons.They are an aluminum oxide stone and they use a really hard binding agent so yes they do stay flat for a very long time but when you sharpen with them they do not release a lot swarf from the knife,to me for the money that they want for them they do not perform as well as I would like and they are slow to when compared to other stones I have.

I just got some Gritalon Silicon Carbide stones from sharpeningstones.ru and I would take those any day over shapton glass stones plus they cut a lot faster as well.


SpenceSTL said:
I'm really on the fence on what direction to go with Edge Pro stones right now too. I've got the 180 & 400 DMT stones from CKTG and they're awesome for setting the initial bevel. From there though I just have some cheap stones up to 2500 and then the Edge Pro 3k\6k tapes and Balsa\Kangaroo Strops for polish.

CKTG just released a 1000 grit Edge Pro stone, so I'll probably pick that up as the next step from the 400, but I'm not sure where to go from there. Considering the Silicon Carbide set from Gritomatic and then jumping up to like an 8K Shapton Glass.

Also kind of thinking of going from 1k DMT from CKTG and then jumping to 4K Shapton Glass and then 8K Shapton Glass.

So many options for stones for this thing it's almost choice overload.
Click to expand...
 
wade7575 said:
What kind of steels are you planning on sharpening with Shapton Glass stones,I have shapton glass stones but I'm not all that thrilled with them for many reasons.They are an aluminum oxide stone and they use a really hard binding agent so yes they do stay flat for a very long time but when you sharpen with them they do not release a lot swarf from the knife,to me for the money that they want for them they do not perform as well as I would like and they are slow to when compared to other stones I have.

I just got some Gritalon Silicon Carbide stones from sharpeningstones.ru and I would take those any day over shapton glass stones plus they cut a lot faster as well.
Click to expand...

I guess I've got a little bit of everything from some Henkels in the kitchen to traditional Japanese sushi knives to folders in stuff like D2, S35V, probably M4 soon. My plan for the Shaptons was just to get a really high grit for the final hone\polish. I was planning on using diamonds or something like the Silicon Carbide set you referenced up to about the 2K mark. I think that's as high as that set goes?

Actually I'm pretty sure that the set that gritomatic sells is likely the same Russian stones used in the Gritalon kit, and you can snag the set on Amazon for $70-something.

It's good to hear some good feedback on the Silicon Carbide stones.
 
They are definitely not anything you can purchase from Gritomatic I knew this before I ordered them and confirmed this as well when I talked to Konstantin the owner of Gritomatic and he said he is not carrying them yet and is not sure if he will be able to get them.

The stones that come with the Tsprof sharpener are grinderman stones witch are also made in Russia and are different from the Gritalons and everyone thinks they are the same,have both the Tsprof and Grinderman stones and they are different for sure in the way they release their abrasive.

SpenceSTL said:
I guess I've got a little bit of everything from some Henkels in the kitchen to traditional Japanese sushi knives to folders in stuff like D2, S35V, probably M4 soon. My plan for the Shaptons was just to get a really high grit for the final hone\polish. I was planning on using diamonds or something like the Silicon Carbide set you referenced up to about the 2K mark. I think that's as high as that set goes?

Actually I'm pretty sure that the set that gritomatic sells is likely the same Russian stones used in the Gritalon kit, and you can snag the set on Amazon for $70-something.

It's good to hear some good feedback on the Silicon Carbide stones.
Click to expand...
 
what about Venev Dual side diamond stones? They're on Gritomatic and Amazon. Should these be enough to set some new edges once the factory edge is toast?

Description from Gritomatic:

All diamonds consist of two 2 mm-thick diamond-bearing layers on the aluminum plate. The diamond-bearing layers contains evenly distributed diamond grains with organic bonding. The manufacture of bonded diamonds is more complex than for coated diamonds. Bonded diamonds give the sharpening stone a much longer lifespan.
The set includes 3 stones with total 6 grits: 100 + 240, 400 + 800, 1200 + 2000 grit (FEPA-F).
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top